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Assault by teacher

re... : Assault by teacher          
08/06/2008 15:04 - Bullying
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Dear Pal,

I´m sorry if I appear to be angry, anger has long since past. It´s very difficult as a parent to watch your child spiral downwords from being quite a confident kid to a clinging child with diminished confidence. I do appreciate your comments and obvioiusly as you don´t have the full facts, I have to make allowances for your ignorance.

You obviously credit yourself with vast intelligence, that you would question the judgement of professionals in the Gardai. The evidence was put before a Sargent and then a Super Intendent who then passed it to the DPP.

I didn´t start up this thread in order to justify my actions, I as my son´s mother do not have to justify what I believe to be the truth. I asked for parents advice who may have found themselves in similiar position to me. I was having a very low day and asked for advice. You on the other hand have chosen not to offer advice but critisism about something which you feel from reading a few posts are an expert on. If you haven´t been there, with no disrepect, you are not qualified to offer advice. We have been to one of the top solicitors in this land who tells us (from his vast experience) that children of 5 years of age do not make up such malicious tales. We will be suing the school but will await a professional opinion on the damage caused to our son.

In the very beginning Pal, we went to the Principal, told him what our son told us. He assured us he would look into it and said "nothing like this has ever happened in the school before". I had a very good relationship with this man and had no reason to doubt he wouldn´t keep to his word. He avoided us for 2weeks and when we asked what was the outcome of his investigation we were told he wasn´t aware we still had a problem. I had thought it must be a bad day thing with the teacher but later found out (and indeed seen) a letter which was given to the Principal by a previous parent who complained about the same teacher. It was the same MO as with my son. We wrote to the BOM, who felt the complaint was unsubstansiated. Here´s where the problem began. We were never asked to put our son´s case to the Board, my son was never asked what happened, yet an investigation was carried out?? Surely you will agree that in order for an investigation to be carried out both sides should be given the opportunity to speak. Anyway, knowing what we know about this teacher now (which for legal reasons I can´t disclose) we had no option but to go to the Gardai. They were absolutely fantastic. I know many people don´t have much good to say about them but I have been brought up to respect the Gardai and I bring my children up with the same morals. Anyway, the teacher waited 6 weeks to make a statement, then it proceeded to the SuperIntendant and on to the DPP. I´m not asking for your sympathy Pal, all I´m saying is that you don´t know either side of the story fully so why critisise me? The other parents on this thread only aired what happened to their children also. Surely as a parent, and someday you´ll be a grandparent, you don´t condone violence towards 5 and 6 year old little people?

We have it in writing from the Dept of Education that the ´children first guidelines´ should have been invoked, and as they were not the, they have asked the HSE to investigate. These investigations are ongoing. Also the Ombudsman for Children are investigating the way the case was handled also.

You have to have a heart beating inside you, mine has been broken watching my little son over the past 6 months, my own health has suffered as has my husbands but that´s part and parcel of being a parent. Kids don´t come with a handbook as you know and we just have to do what we feel is best at them at the time.

Chelle.



re... : Assault by teacher          
02/03/2008 18:10 - Bullying
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Hi Chelle,

thanks for your reply. I wish you the very best of luck. These people who hide behind each other on Boards of Managements to protect an abusive teacher are completely spineless. Also the Catholic church has a lot to answer for when they have priests who cover up for these teachers. There is no point having Catholics schools when they don´t practise a Catholic ethos. May God forgive them all and shame on them for not protecting innocent children. St. Patrick didn´t banish all the snakes in this country!!!



re... : Assault by teacher          
12/06/2008 16:05 - Bullying
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Hi Rosie,
I am a total outsider here, just wondering, do you think that the allegations in your school are false? If so what do you think is the motivation behind such attacks?
Thanks



re... : Assault by teacher          
28/05/2008 19:11 - Bullying
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Hi LT,

I admire your courage and strength. We went through all the stages with the BOM and still they wouldn´t support our complaint. They backed the abusive teacher and yes we were made feel like outcasts by the locals too even though we grew up in the area. We had about ten letters from past parents who had the same trouble with their children. This evidence was never shown to the members on the BOM. The principal, chairperson and parish priest kept the letters and made us feel like we were on trial. We still wonder what would have happened if we had sent the written evidence to the Department of Education? We really should have spoken to a journalist. Is there any other way of exposing this evidence? Why should this teacher keep getting away with being mean and cruel to innocent children? Why are parents just dismissed and the teacher´s word taken for granted when there is plenty of evidence there.



re... : Assault by teacher          
31/05/2008 15:13 - Bullying
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Hi Deisemum & Ajna & all,

Deisemum fair play to you following it through and continuing to highlight it. The parents in our school don´t believe that my situation actually happened at all. Why would I make up such a thing? Why would the Gardai send a file to the DPP? Anyone with half a brain would realise that files do not get to the DPP without foundation. At least I know from you what I can expect from the DES! I didn´t expect much more. The Ombudsman is investigating our case and the other case that happened with my son´s. I don´t know whether to tell the PTA? I´m on it, so it´s difficult but at the same time I am surprised that the Chairperson hasn´t said it to me. She obviously believes the lies the Principal has been telling. I´d be very interested in lobbying outside the DES and the Dail. There is a definite gap in legislation between the BOM´s and the DES. Those BOM´s are an entity in themselves a dangerous one! I know not all BOM´s are the same in fact I went to an open evening last week of another school in my area and the Chairperson stood up and said the "we are YOUR BOM, we are here to serve you, even if it´s a small matter, we want to hear from you". I thought well fair dues as I´d been to a similiar open evening in my own school and the BOM didn´t say anything like that. Most people on BOM don´t realise the power they have. It´s mainly profile they join for.

Just got a letter the other day from the BOM saying I cannot communicate with the Principal or the Teacher "against whom these malicious and unsubstansiated allegations have been made". I´m getting on to my solicitor. Would you take that to be slanderous? I feel it definitely is. Malicious allegations don´t get past a sargeant to a super intendent and on to the DPP! I feel it´s an attack on myself and my husbands character. Also I don´t think they can stop me speaking to my child´s teacher as long as he is a pupil in her class.

Just like you I´m puzzled how parents turn a blind eye even when they know it´s true. I have a few very good friends in the school and they are constantly passing on the truth to the sceptics! Funny thing is, 6 months ago I would have been in the sceptic camp! The other couple whose daughter was assaulted was on the BOM for 4 years...........look how she´s been treated! Does that in itself not send out a message.

I know I´m forgetting half of what I logged on to say but this thread is definitely the start of something. We have to go further for every child in the country. Teachers too should join. I was quite alarmed at what you said Deisemum about the teachers union telling teachers not to grass each other up. I´m appalled.....but not surprised! Like every industry there´s good and bad but these bad are giving the good teachers out there a bad name. Teaching is a vocation and I totally admire (good) teachers, the patience the have is totally admirable. And SNAs even more so as they focus on children with special needs. Just like you story I know there are special needs assistants covering for this one in our school.

Also the Deputy Principal and a BOM members told us it´d be better for everyone if we just left the school. While I may be considering it I won´t be told what to do but I have to put my kids first. Their education is paramount. Just feel so upset and angry that my son´s senior infant year was snatched from him. This should have been a nice easy year before he knuckled down. Also by sticking it out this long I´ve given my kids a message that when the going gets tough, stay and fight it!

Let´s get this lobbying underway.

Chelle



re... : Assault by teacher          
13/06/2008 11:38 - Bullying
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Hi Concerned,

Thanks for you post. I won´t call you a half brain as you put it. I don´t actually have to say anything as your ignorance speaks for itself! The sargent told us that he could see a man with a gun in his hand, a dead man on the ground and know the man with the gun killed him but he could walk away with it. That in itself put your comment to bed in my eyes. You obviously don´t know very much about the legal system in this country but would be wiser not to broadcast your ignorance.

The literature you refer to in my eyes is alledged as I myself never saw anything. That would lead me to ask the question does the word "poster" fit the description of such material? Thankfully, I was out of the country when this happened and my husband was minding 4 children so he´d be hard pressed to find the time to do anything else given that most men can only do one thing at a time! The publicity runs deeper than the incident at the school, it´s an attempt to highlight the dangers that face parents should they run into difficulty with a BOM (not pinpointing to my own school BOM) it can happen anywhere.

Whatever way to look at this case through whatever rose tinted spectacles the FACT is the Children were never listened to. This in itself is abuse. It violates the United Nations Convention on children´s rights that a child has a right to be heard. Since joining my school I have had the pleasure of dealing with 5 wonderful teachers. Unlucky for me with the 6th! If someone told me that the teacher my son had last year abused a child, admittedly I would be so shocked but I wouldn´t rule it out. Children of 5 years old couldn´t possibly read into these situations, I can only go by the change in my child and the fact that all mothers know there own child.

If people want to ignore or critisise me for trying to protect my child and highlight the incident while doing so then I´m guilty. I´m just a very upset mother whose trying to rebuild my own life after 6 months of absolute hell. I´m sorry to any parent or child who I have caused offence to, that was never my intention. I am a good person with a good heart and I would never do that to anyone intentionally.

Chelle



re... : Assault by teacher          
04/06/2008 08:50 - Bullying
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Hi Deisemum,

I´m thinking of emailing Gerry Ryan. As many people should do it as possible. We´ll tell him to have a look at our post so he can see for himself the level of interest it has raised.

Chelle



re... : Assault by teacher          
03/06/2008 18:23 - Bullying
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I´m liking that too Deisemum. It´s just so appropriate for all our situations. I wrote to my solicitor today about the letter I got from the BOM saying that myself or my husband cannot communicate with the Principal or the teacher against "whom these malicious and unsubstansiated allegations have been made". I think malicious is a very strong word so I could be looking at a slanderous case here. As if I haven´t got enough going on with my son. It´s like they are driving me to a breakdown.

I have got great support from this post and it´s great to be able to speak to people in the same position as me.

Thank you all so much.

Chelle



re... : Assault by teacher          
03/06/2008 17:37 - Bullying
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Dear Justiceforkids & All

I really like that quote from Martin Luther King Jnr, it really sums the whole thing up. If only the people who are sheilding these bad teachers had a conscience!! None of us would be on here that´s for sure!

I´ve had to take my son out again from school as SHE has started to emotionally target him now which is what I feared would happen. She´s shouting in his ears and then there´s the pink soother issue. It really consumes you.

The thing that let the the Principal and teacher is my case down is that neither of them are parents. The totally underestimated the lengths a parent will go to protect their child!

Pity MrWhite has left the post, we could´ve invited him to our Primetime Showdown!!

Chelle



re : Assault by teacher          
20/04/2008 07:40 - Bullying
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Hi there
Hope things are improving for you and your child. Its not just schools under a Catholic ethos where this is a problem. Two five year olds in my son´s old school were slapped by the Principal (over a year on I´m still shocked by that one). He wasn´t slapped so it wasn´t for me to make a complaint but I made my concerns known to the Principal. The particular school is in a very affluent part of dublin and prides itself on teaching spirituality and philosophy to children and is supposed to be non-denominational. Its the same problem though - the teachers, Board of Management and in this case, the Patron, are all members of the same movement - the Philosophy movement who run the school so human nature being what it is, they are going to see it from their organisational viewpoint. Unfortunately the same group have a history of violence towards boys in schools they have run world-wide. It is hard to see how schools can be made accountable for the behaviour of their staff without bringing it into the area of criminal prosecution.

I moved my child to another school and made sure he was aware that it was not his fault but that it was not a good place for children. If you are having the same issue, why not move your child? What I was thinking was that in an ideal world, the situation in the school would change but that experience was telling me that was unlikely, so the best option for him was to move him. I hope its working out for you and your children.



re... : Assault by teacher          
05/06/2008 00:00 - Bullying
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Hi there,
Why is it that a so-called democratically run Board of Management cannot take the brave step to ´grasp the nettle´ by conducting a fair and objective investigation without the proverbial "sweeping it under the carpet". When a complaint is given in respect of a child as young as the ones in this thread it is very difficult for parents to deal with it especially when the BOM and the Parent Teacher Association is hell-bent in favour of the teacher and against the children, who depend on their parents to speak for them.

It´s a real David and Goliath scenario but having said that just look at the changes which came about when one small black woman, who was looked upon by the post war United States society as being an "Outsider" all because she refused to give up her seat on a bus to a white man. Her name, of course, was Rosa Parkes.

Of course we are mindful that the school is a powerful entity because parents depend on the school to educate their children, but one has to ask how far does this dependence go that clearly causes myopic episodes some people in that "if it´s not happening to my kids then that´s ok". At the end of the day parents will do all they legally can to protect their children and moving them is leaving a potential problem in situ and sending the wrong message to children.

Anyhow it´s late and God Bless all the little Rosa Parkes´ out there who are brave enough not to be branded an "Outsider" just because ´responsible´ adults who look at the world through rose-tinted glasses chose not to listen to the children when they really needed them.

JusticeForKids :redcard:



re... : Assault by teacher          
01/06/2008 09:39 - Bullying
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re... : Assault by teacher          
31/05/2008 22:37 - Bullying
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Not wanting to put you off but your woman from the children´s ombudsman hasn´t got a great reputation for resolving things.

The National Parents Council told me that about 50% of their complaints are about teachers bullying pupils.

Deisemum



Assault by teacher          
21/02/2008 16:14 - Bullying
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Hello,

My five year old son has been absent from school for 6 weeks now as a result of an assault on him by his teacher. The DES and HSE and Gardai are investigating this at the moment but obviously these wheels turn very very slowly. Moving my son isn´t an option as we have other children in the school. The BOM have failed to invesitgate it despite the fact that there have been numerous allegations of assault against this teacher in the past. The BOM and principal fully support her and as a result we´ve been left with no alternative but to remove our son for his safety. We have asked for him to be moved to another class but this has been refused also. We are lucky (if you can call it that) that another family are in the same situation, and we find support from each other. Has anyone had any similar experiences? We are at our wits end and just don´t know where to turn. The Dept of Educ say it´s under the HSE remit and vice versa. It´s so sad that children in this country have no rights. I should also point out that my son was never asked by the school what happened to him. The Gardai have sent a file to the DPP but this teacher continues to teach, can this be right? Any advice out there?





re... : Assault by teacher          
13/06/2008 12:39 - Bullying
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Susie,

Wining and dining wouldn´t be how I´d put it. As you quoted me that´s exactly what i´m doing, "rebuilding". Would it not be seen that I´m trying to move on with the past and look towards the future by joining the BOM & PTA of the school for an evening which I thought was a meeting and not a "wine & dine" session.

If the BOM are at a disadvantage it´ll be a first! They had every opportunity to give their side to the media which they didn´t do, that´s simply because everything that was said was TRUE!!!!

You and your spindoctors should ask me why I did whatever it is you seem to be so aggressive about. I DID NOT DO ANY POSTERS..........FACT.

As for telling me to go elsewhere to get support............I have numerous letters and cards from parents who are parents I want to be associated with. You on the other hand turn a blind eye to the truth. I hope for your children´s sake you never are in this position. I set up this post so why don´t you go elsewhere



re... : Assault by teacher          
01/06/2008 13:04 - Bullying
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Mr White.
I am appaulled at the fact that you sit there reading these posts and have come to a conclusion of ´cods wallop!´ I cant speak for anyone else but I as a mother and full time worker have alot of more inportant things to be doing than dealing with ´cods wallop´!. This site has given me hope and the courage to approach the sick situation that my innocent child has been subjected to. the parents here who are posting are heroes who have stood up to the people who continue to abuse children and so far have been let away with it. maybe you should start listening to the children from now on and stop listening to the people who need you to cover their back sides. That is of course you are a principal??? if your not, Then maybe you are a teacher who maybe has something to hide??? Either way you should be ashamed of yourself for what you wrote.



re... : Assault by teacher          
05/06/2008 16:17 - Bullying
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God only knows how any of our stories will end up. All I know is that the parents on this thread have given me the strenght i need to keep shouting until someone finally listens. I just wanna thank everyone here for the time and the advice you have all given to me. And i hope that you all get justice for your kids someday. x Will keep you all posted on the abba song senario. TKS



re... : Assault by teacher          
09/06/2008 01:04 - Bullying
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Hi JusticeForKids

It´s 3 years since the assault on my son came to light so the statute of limitation has passed.

My son is now a very happy child and will be finished in primary school in 3 weeks time. He´s had a fantastic teacher this year and I cannot praise this woman enough. She´s turned his attitude to school around to what it was before he was assaulted and this year he´s once again top of the class in a lot of his subjects. He´s even taken on extra work he´s that happy with this teacher.

The secondary school that he will be attending know about the assault the teacher concerned as I wouldn´t like a shadow over the good teachers and we don´t have any worries there.

I will still continue raising awareness on this issue though.





re... : Assault by teacher          
13/06/2008 10:44 - Bullying
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My child is in the same school as chelles child and also had the same teacher. We experienced no problems with the teacher in question and like Rosie am concerned about this affecting the other children in the school.There were posters put up which were obviously placed there by somebody connected to the allegations made. From speaking to other parents they feel that they would obviously follow upon any allegation made by their child but would not go down the road of publicity seeking as you seem to be doing. The police gather evidence and then submit the file to the DPP who decides if there is a case to answer. Obviously you have no case or there would be a court case pending. Please do not inflict any abuse on the children of the school by your actions.Also like Rosie i take great offence in being called a half brain as you said in one of your earier posts



re... : Assault by teacher          
26/05/2008 22:00 - Bullying
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Hi Anja,

It´s sick to see that child abuse is still rampant in Irish schools, unless there are physical injuries or sexual abuse, it does not matter. Emotional or psychological abuse is not important, the various authorities tie everything in knots to obstruct parents at every turn, the Boards of Management have no accountability and their only concern is to protect their staff and limit liability at the expense of the children.

Regards
Chelle

You can contact us via childrenfirst764@gmail.com



re... : Assault by teacher          
11/06/2008 00:29 - Bullying
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I don´t know how anyone with a conscience can sleep at night if they keep quiet and aid an abuser in any school or child-centred facility? What sort of person can sit on the fence and not speak out if they know something. I actually think that type of coward is worse than the abuser.



re... : Assault by teacher          
09/06/2008 16:02 - Bullying
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Hi all

Just another reminder that posters must not name people or schools, and the posts should not descend to interpersonal attacks. Any posts breaking these rules will be deleted or modified and posters may be banned!
http://www.schooldays.ie/articles/terms-and-conditions-of-use..

We have also decided to omit this thread from the ´recent postings´ section on our homepage, as it possibly gives the thread a higher profile than is necessary. The thread will remain open for genuine contributions to this important area of discussion and will continue to be accessible via the same url, from the forums, or from the bullying page
http://www.schooldays.ie/articles/bullying

SchoolDays.ie




re... : Assault by teacher          
28/05/2008 11:27 - Bullying
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Hi Girls,
Our case took a turn the other day. During the course of my son´s investigation it emerged that a another child was abused both mentally and Physically by this same teacher but..............it was witnessed by a member of staff!! She gave a statement to the Gardai. She said she cried every night she went home thinking of the torment the child had suffered. . She felt she couldn´t approach the principal. An authority is now taking a claim on behalf of this child on the grounds of Discrimination, Victimisation and disability. This will not sit very well with the schools ethos!

We are thinking of setting up some sort of helpline or advice for parents facing the "Stone Wall" treatment. Any of you any qualifications to help? The more the merrier.

Chins Up, this is not over!! I will speak for all of you.



re... : Assault by teacher          
06/06/2008 09:58 - Bullying
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Hi All,

We have a bit of good news. We feel that since the school recently exercised their right to "no comment" to the media we should have the right to stage a peaceful protest outside the school very shortly. We contacted the Gardai and they said it was OK provided there are no obstructions on the road, no blocking of entrances or exists or displaying of offensive material.

We feel that since the Principal and the school´s Board of Management is trying their best to get rid of us from the school we feel that we can exercise our Constitiutional right to protest. Hopefully the Board´s now third Chairperson in 6 months will not obstruct this because we very much want to mediate on this for the sake of our children. We feel that the Board of Management are doing their very best to wangle out of the offer of mediation because the Principal may be afraid of what will come out in the wash.

Any advice on this is welcome.

JusticeForKids



re... : Assault by teacher          
09/06/2008 18:36 - Bullying
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Hi All,
I have just found this post - I am baffled and horrified. I am actually a teacher, as well as a mammy, and I am genuinely shocked to hear this is going on! I have come across teachers in my time but have never ever seen or heard of physical attacks on children- I must admit that I find so difficult to believe! I just dont know how the other parents would keep sending their kids if this was going on? I mean I have gently moved kids along and I have, on the rare occasion, strongly restrained a child who was a danger to himself or others- is there any chance this was the case? I dont mean to accuse your child of lying at all- I am literally just in shock!
I am begining to feel very paranoid now, especially when I see the songs being taught are being examined too! Although thats a dodgy choice of song for school I must admit! But you know what I mean! Is there any chance with the verbal stuff that the words were harsh but the tone was soft, if you know what I mean? For example, my friend, who is an amazing, funny teacher, always says she will ´kill´ the boys if they dont stop the chat- but its said with a smile not with menace- would you consider this verbal abuse? I hope this does not come across as an attack as thats not how it is meant at all, I am really just trying to get my head around what is very upsetting reading for a dedicated teacher who loves their job!



re... : Assault by teacher          
01/06/2008 00:24 - Bullying
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Dear Mr White, While your posting is valuable from a debate point of view. How can I be sure you are not the "aliases". The point about this thread is that a complaint went to a Board of Management and came back "not substantiated" but the same complaint went to the DPP. This is the crux of the matter, putting the safety of children in the hands of a Board of Management. This is a serious matter that needs to be addressed.



re... : Assault by teacher          
12/06/2008 16:39 - Bullying
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The word "Liar" was never mentioned. See how things get blown out of proportion...



re... : Assault by teacher          
09/06/2008 10:17 - Bullying
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Any chance xxx and Mr White can come back into the forum, please!!

Thanks,
J4K



re... : Assault by teacher          
08/06/2008 12:50 - Bullying
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Hi J4K & Chelle,

Thank you J4K for your useful information. Chelle, you are really really angry and ultra defensive. I am a parent of long standing and mature enough to understand the damaging effects of passionate anger. I believe that any parent would empathise with you were they to know the specifics other than the potentially libellous detailed aspects. If you were to approach your dilemma, frustrating as it may well be, with a cooler head, you might gain some ground. I agree that this thread is a public forum where we may freely express our views and not a support club or group. This is why specific action support groups are normally formed. Despite not dignifying with a response, it seems that you could not resist which of course tells its own story.



re... : Assault by teacher          
02/06/2008 15:30 - Bullying
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Just had a thought about another possible way of promoting this abuse issue. I´m involved in a project that often involves interviews with journalists and I´m scheduled for another interview with a journalist from one of the national broadsheets in mid-July. Think it´s time to take this issue up another notch



re : Assault by teacher          
22/02/2008 17:43 - Bullying
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Hi chelle,
I feel so sorry for what you and your family are going through right now.I work in a primary school and have experienced this "WHITEWASH" treatment first hand.I had an issue which I brought to the attention of the Principal and the B.O.M. To say that the investigation was a joke is an understatment.I was not believed even though there were witnesses (who were never questioned).I was out of work for a considerable period of time and am still attending the doctor and counselling as a result of how I was treated.The isolation is the worst part because the rest of the staff are afraid to be SEEN to be supporting me.The matter is ongoing !

My advice to you is to believe in your son and in your own instincts for what is right.We teach our children to be kind and gentle and to respect each other. How can we expect them to do this when they see quite the opposite from someone who is supposed to be teaching them.They learn about children`s rights and as a parent you need to ensure that their rights are met until they are able to do that for themselves.

What message would you be giving your child if you took him out of this school ?
That he doesn`t have the right to be there? That he reported what happened to him and nobody in school listened.? Follow it up you are not the only one.



re... : Assault by teacher          
11/06/2008 17:04 - Bullying
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Hi Deirdre,

This in no way highlights all teachers in a bad light. My own aunt is a primary teacher, she too was shocked at how it was handled (or not handled!). We wanted in some way to let the staff know that we are so sorry if they feel they are being victimised by this. This was never ever our intention. Looking back, I couldn´t have done anything differently. I´m not trained on child protection but a DLP for the school is.

Our BOM didn´t seem to know what policy to use for this. At first, the chairperson told us it was the "communications" policy. Then 3 weeks later the principal handed us a photocopy of the INTO "complaints Procedure". As it turns out (and I have this in writing from the Dept of Ed) that the Child First Guidelines should have been invoked. The Dept actually sent the Chairperson out a copy of the guidelines along with a recommendation but this was still not followed.

As I´ve said, I´m a very reasonable person and had my son been transferred to the other class that would´ve been a start to meeting half way. With our Principal it´s all about setting a precident! Can´t set a precident in any situation! It appears that he rules the BOM and he makes up his own mind on situations which he did on the moving the kids issue and like SHEEP the BOM followed.

Thanks for your reply, and you have nothing at all to feel bad about. You obviously treat little people that your school with the respect and dignity they deserve.

Chelle



re... : Assault by teacher          
04/06/2008 22:22 - Bullying
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Hi Jen,

Thanks for your reply. There are a few things in your post I don´t agree with probably because you didn´t have the information. Firstly, we had no choice but to put our son into the class again. The school refused to move him on the grounds of incriminating the teacher. We also have another son in the school and this was his Communion year so to move him would´ve been detrimental to him. Being a mum of 4 children, I have to weigh up what´s best for each child. My son returned to the class on the recommendation of his pschologist. As my son has speech & language difficulties he needed familiar surroundings and it was felt that he would resent moving to another school. We had been given the option of sitting in on the class which when we accepted the BOM refused. They agreed to have another adult (member of staff) in the room at all times with the teacher, so we weren´t putting him into the lions den as you so eloquently put it.

The DPP as we all know are quite fickle in their prosecutions so we aren´t reading too much into that. The fact is that the information was put before a Sargent, then a super intendent and then to the DPP. It actually did my son the world of good to be able to speak about what he´d been through as the school had chosen not to listen to our son.

I think it´s a bit unfair of you to judge me on reading the posts. I am not interested in any profile for myself I can assure you of that. I am interested however in highlighting what is evidently a national problem of sweeping things under the carpet. The moving on theory that you have seems to be a bit old fashioned. That is how abusers thrive. They´ll just move on to their next VICTIM. This problem runs alot deeper than my school, it´s a problem with the system and that´s what protects these teachers. I´ve already echoed what you said about totally admiring the majority of teachers, indeed with 4 children I don´t know how the keep 30 under control..........well I do know how a small minority do!!

With regards to moving my children to another school, I must point out that my child is not the problem. As I´ve said already, moving sends a message to my child that when the going gets tough RUN! Each to their own style of parenting and that just isn´t mine.

Chelle



re... : Assault by teacher          
31/05/2008 16:05 - Bullying
-----------------------------------
I was interviewed on Newstalk and it was the main story that morning and ran for a few days. A lot of other parents phoned and text in to the show with similar sad tales.

I have no problem highlighting this at every opportunity.



re... : Assault by teacher          
10/06/2008 09:30 - Bullying
-----------------------------------
I´d just like to add one more thing on believing children when they tell us what has happened.
Another child in my child´s class complained of rough-handling about the same teacher to his mum. The teacher asked the mum could she talk to the child about it and she gave her permission. This teacher then talked to the child on their own, and the child changed their mind about what happened.

In my view, what that child learned was, I tell my mum about something that hurt me, she leaves me alone with the much bigger, boss figure who hurt me (and who knows what she said to him as there were no witnesses), i´ve got into trouble for telling that she hurt me.

Do you think that child is likely to trust enough to tell if someone hurts him again?

I don´t. And people wonder why children still "don´t tell" about abuse - well, when they do, they aren´t listened to. I think adults who go along with the children are "liars´ line, are acting to enable and collude with abuse and abusers. Thats my view.

And i support JFK - how can people be helped to stop their abusive behaviour if those around them collude in the denial.



re... : Assault by teacher          
13/06/2008 12:22 - Bullying
-----------------------------------
´I´m just a very upset mother whose trying to rebuild my own life after 6 months of absolute hell.´

So upset that you were were wining and dining with these people you call sheep earlier this week!

You are so aggressive and defensive and dismiss anyones viewpoint that doesn´t agree with yours. I too am a parent in your school. My child has also had the teacher about whom you and your cohorts have been spilling bile about in the schoolyard. You miss the point - it is not the issue you complain about but the way in which you have handled yourselves in the advancement of your issue. You have caused upset and distress to the whole school community. Make your allegations in the appropriate way - sue if necessary but stop using this forum because you cant get a hearing anywhere else. You know full well we are only hearing your version of events. The bOM have not spoken not because they are ´excercising a right to silence´ as your fellow poster asserts. The BOM are at a disadvantage here. They cannot respond to the allegations you make, even if they wanted to.



re... : Assault by teacher          
04/06/2008 08:20 - Bullying
-----------------------------------
I think we should see about getting the media involved and start making appeals to the general public for people who´ve been assaulted by teachers, or witnessed their classmates being assaulted by teachers since the ban on corporal punishment was introduced.

When people started speaking out about the clerical sex abuse so many people initially found it hard to accept and didn´t want to believe that such things happened but history has shown how extensive that was.



re... : Assault by teacher          
03/06/2008 15:29 - Bullying
-----------------------------------
Hi,

little error on web - pupils spelt wrong.

otherwise great!



re... : Assault by teacher          
11/06/2008 19:20 - Bullying
-----------------------------------
Thank you for your lovely replies Chelle, I am just so sorry that yourself and the other parents here have to go through such hell! Now that I am getting my head around it I am really begining to get very angry and upset at the system. (I am also upset that I dont know how to edit my posts as I keep making spelling mistakes! Lol!) There must be something that can be done! I must admit that I have often felt that there is not strict enough monitoring of teachers, not as unpopular an opinion with my fellow teachers as you would, think as all of the good teachers are sick of the lazy teachers doing nothing but moaning all year and then leaving us to work extra hard with their classes the following year to make up for all that the lazy teacher didn´t do. Now that you have opened my mind to this area I am even more convinved than ever that their needs to more teacher supervision, do you think that would help? Perhaps a ´floating´ inspector for each area who had the right to come in and observe any class at any time? I think an experienced professional would be able to sense the atmosphere in a class very quickly. I know there is one particular teacher in our school who, while not abusive, has no interest in her job or the kids and she puts on a big act for the parents at home time but we can see through it very easily so I am sure an inspector could sense that fear of a bullying teacher and make note of it? Am I living in a dream world here? Is it something worth raising at a Teachers Union meeting? I know that would be a really long term solution but maybe it could fill that gap in child protection in schools?
Can I ask you what is your present situation everyone? Are you just sitting it out or are you moving schools? Are the other parents showing any more support? Are your other children aware of what has happened Chelle? Do you think you will move them?
Speaking of children I had better go put mine to bed- they are still suffering from the shock of mammy being on the computer more than daddy the past couple of days!
You are all in my thoughts



re... : Assault by teacher          
31/05/2008 10:37 - Bullying
-----------------------------------
I just wanted to mention that the National Parents Council were extremely helpful and reassuring, so were the Gardai. They cannot help put a stop to child abusing teachers if parents are not coming forward to report every assault.

Parents should go straight to the Gardai as assault is a crime and they need to do so asap because of the very short statute of limitation. By going to the Gardai and having every assault reported you´re establishing "history" and if a second or subsequent family come forward with an assault allegation then history has already been established.

It will also send out a message to teachers, principals and BOMs that they are not going to be able to keep covering up assault and that they´re not above the law.





re... : Assault by teacher          
05/06/2008 13:06 - Bullying
-----------------------------------
Thanks Ajna, LT & all for the support.

I think some people were put on this earth to try the rest of our patience! The thing Jen01 obviously hasn´t grasped is that you don´t mess with other people´s children! They are our most precious possessions.

LT that song is disgusting for 7 and 8 year olds to be singing. Print a copy of the lyrics out and give it to the parents. Most people I feel sing away to a song without knowing real words or just sing the chorus & hum the rest. In your case they are teaching the words to the kids. What would happen if one of the children were to ask teacher what was the song about? Would teacher know what to say? Would it be appropriate if she answered? In my son´s class at the moment they are singing a Monkees song. I love old songs so he´d have heard them before but they are age appropriate..daydream believer and before Molly Malone etc.

Children grow up quick enough in today´s society, leave them with their innocence for as long as possible.
You are not wrong LT, it´s just others parents obviously aren´t bothered or don´t have as high a standard for their kids as you do.

Chelle



re... : Assault by teacher          
10/06/2008 22:20 - Bullying
-----------------------------------
Hi Deirdre,

You sound like a lovely person. Most of the teachers in our school seem like lovely people too however they are being led down a merry path by the Principal....what a tangled web he weaves!!

I´d like to ask you as a teacher.......

Do you feel the child and the other children who witnessed the situation should have been asked from the very beginning by the DLP of the school what happened before he formed his opinion following discussions with the teacher?

Do you think the parents should have had an opportunity to address the BOM before they decided the allegation was unsubstansiated?

Do you think that the BOM should have delved more considering the Gardai had enough evidence and witnesses to send a file for prosecution to the DPP?

Do you not think it would have made more sense for this to be handled internally rather than having to involve the Gardai?

As I´ve said already Deirdre, it breaks my heart how my son has changed. I absolutely loved that school. My kids absolutely loved that school. Now that has all changed for us as a family. We used to sit around the table for dinner and discuss our day, in the past six months our family life has been totally turned upside down. It hasn´t just affected our son in this case, it´s affected the other children too. Both my sons idolised the Principal. It´s just such a sad situation. Had the Principal moved the children concerned to the other class we would´ve been happy with that. We also would´ve been happy if we´d been given the opportunity to address the BOM. If we´d been included in their ´investigation´ and then returned a verdict which was the same at least we´d have felt that we were heard, that our son was heard. As it stands, the child was NEVER heard. The child didn´t have a voice.

I understand what you say about glass doors and SNAs but the SNAs do slip in and out of the class. Their breaks are also different to that of the teachers. As a mother Deirdre, you just know your own kids and I know in my heart that this happened and I´ll go to my grave knowing that this happened but at least as I´ve said before, I did what I felt right at the time for my son. He knows I love him dearly and he won´t be going back to that teachers clutches again. I have to tell him I love him constantly and that September will be great going back to a new teacher. I pray that September will be great, this is a living nightmare.

Thanks for your ears.
Chelle



re... : Assault by teacher          
31/05/2008 15:59 - Bullying
-----------------------------------
This all seems very interesting. Girls I´m With ya all the way. If there is any way I can help then just let me know. Would be amazing if we could highlight this on Primetime or something like that. Maybe we could hold a meeting???
We gotta send a message out to these teachers that parents will no longer lie down and roll over. If we dont try to protect our kids then who will???
LT



re... : Assault by teacher          
01/06/2008 16:31 - Bullying
-----------------------------------
Thanks JusticeForkids & LT for back up.

Looks like we scared Mr White off! Such a ficticious name anyway. I wouldn´t be at all surprised if it was the Principal from my son´s school. Thank God we stood together. He´s sounds like the kind of people we are describing in our thread. Perhaps he´s even a chairperson of a BOM!

I agree that there should be and Ombudsman for BOMs. Great Idea! Where do we start with setting the ball rolling. I just can´t get over the cheek of that Mr White. To ask why there hasn´t been any court cases? How would he know anyway. I´m more interested at the moment in salvaging my son´s self esteem and confidence that this inhumane person snatched away from him. The fact that a BOM are as the told us "an entity" is disturbing. They don´t have to answer to anyone even when it blatantly obvious they have totally misjudged a situation. I do agree that the majority of teachers are great I´ve said that before and this ombudsman would protect those people from bullies too.

There is definitely a gap in legislation, where we start is another thing. Thanks for your email LT, I´ll get onto RTE Tuesday. Busy day ahead of me as I´m contacting my solicitor aswell.

Watch out Mr White!
Chelle



re... : Assault by teacher          
11/06/2008 07:21 - Bullying
-----------------------------------
To the Moderator:

Please remove me (JusticeForKids) from this thread for deleting the link I posted last night. The link was connected to an external site and is a prime example of the way parents have been treated in relation to an incident of alleged bully and alleged abuse and it shows what may happen to those who speak out and refuse to be silent in a system that is geared against children.

The link nothing to do with www.schooldays.ie It was, in my opinion very unfair to delete it.

Thank you for giving me the opportunity to support people who have have experienced alleged bullying etc.

J4K



re... : Assault by teacher          
03/06/2008 17:44 - Bullying
-----------------------------------
All it takes for evil to prosper is for good people to do nothing.

Time to cut out the rot



re... : Assault by teacher          
11/06/2008 16:48 - Bullying
-----------------------------------
Hi all,
Back again! Cant seem to get this case out of my head! In our school the SNA does have different breaks to the teacher but is in the class all the time besides that and I think that they would be very aware of the atmosphere of bullying in the class but I can definately see how a teacher (please God, the very rare few!) could become a dictator if thre wasnt another adult there most of the time. Scary!
Chelle I totally agree with you that the child should have been spoken to first, then the other children, then staff members. I would have no problem with people asking any of my pupils, present or past, about my actions- I have nothing to hide. This was very very poor management in my mind, I simply dont understand it. I do know of two cases in our school, over the many years I have taught there, where staff members were reported by parents to be bullying childen (not physically) and in both cases the staff members met with the Principal ad the parents to resolve the issues. It was nasty and awkward I am sure but I just assumed that it was standard practise! I think it was insane to go down this path of denial without investigating the issue. I mean if they didnt even talk to the alleged victim how could that possibly be deemed an investigation of any sort! Wow- I have never used so many exclamatin marks!
Once again guys, I really really feel for you all, I am horrified that this has happened and I think that their really needs to be some sort of detailed protocal put into place for such incidents. I love my job and, to me, its the most important, precious job of all (after mammy and daddy!) and I am so angry that this kind of incident paints us all in such a bad light!



re : Assault by teacher          
22/02/2008 18:40 - Bullying
-----------------------------------
Chelle, assault is a criminal matter, notify the gardaí. Unlikely writing to Hanafin will get you anywhere,you will be sent back to the board



re... : Assault by teacher          
05/06/2008 12:42 - Bullying
-----------------------------------
LT, I sympathise fully. So far, I have been lucky and my chldren are very happy in school.
Can I ask (forgive me if you have already said) whether you have put your concerns and complaints in writing? I am firmly of the view that such things need to be in writing. At least that way there is no confusion about what was said or dates etc.
I read back over your posts and notice that your child´s teacher wanted the children at swimming pool to change in public? What is that about? I would regard that as inappropriate in that environment.
Perhaps those with more experience than me could advise you better.
Don´t give up and do keep in touch.

Warm regards



re... : Assault by teacher          
08/06/2008 15:54 - Bullying
-----------------------------------
Hi Pal,

Thanks for your response. As I have been saying a Board of Management can never rely on the the DPP´s decision not to prosecute, at this time, simply because the DPP must take into account a whole lot more considerations than a Board of Management. To clarify this one would have to contact the Director of Public Prosecutions Office.

They are two completely different standards of proof. From the ´civil´ perspective the standard of proof, which anyone but An Garda Siochana ought to use, is on the "balance of probabilities" and from the ´criminal´ perspective the standard of proof is "beyond a reasonable doubt".

Again, what I am trying to highlight, is that the Board of Management seem happy to rely on an entity which has to work with a completely different standard of proof than what they should have used. In simple terms they are not the DPP, they are a Board of Management.

Another thing I want to highlight is that, how does a serious complaint referred to a Board of Management come back as ´no case to answer´ yet when the same complaint was treated as serious enough to warrant an investigation by An Garda Siochana (who are always mindful of the ´criminal´ standard of proof before referring a case to the DPP).

So, in other words, our child´s complaint cleared the prerequisites in the criminal domain to be referred to the DPP, yet the Board of Management returned our child´s complaint, in respect of an alleged assault without investigating it correctly.


I hope to hear from you and Jen01 again, as debate is always a good forum for highlighting a need for change. Perhaps Mr White and Mary6 can come in again.

Have to go as the field is waiting
J4K



re... : Assault by teacher          
08/06/2008 21:58 - Bullying
-----------------------------------
Hi Chelle,
Sorry, not me .... Jenny , not Jane. Most people on this thread are aliases, this is what allows frank discussions to take place. Even your mail address isn´t very personal. Deisemum, Mr White, Justice for Kids, LT and others are all aliases.

Jenny (not Jane )



re... : Assault by teacher          
05/06/2008 11:03 - Bullying
-----------------------------------
Hi everyone.
Just been reading the last few posts, re: being a bad dicision moving the child from the school. I agree with Chelle and admire her for sticking to her guns and stressing that it´s not the child that´s causing the problem, it´s the teacher. I´m in the process of moving my child and for reasons assault by teacher. Maybe I should keep her where she is but Im not as strong as chelle and I dont have any other kids attending there. I dont think that Im giving my child a message of ´we´ve been defeated, lets run´. My child knows how much I have complained and acted on this assault and she also knows that her mum has not let her down, but that the system has let her down. The message i am giving her now is that mummy will go to any lenghts to protect her and if that means moving her to a new school while I pursue the fight to have this teacher removed from the school (wheather my child is there or not) then I feel I have made a good choice. My child maybe safe when removed but that just leaves an opening for this teacher to start on some other innocent child. So the fight will still go on.
One more thing. Has anyone ever read the words of the song (Does your mother know by ABBA)? As far as i can relate to it, It appears to be about a younger person lookin for sex from an older person. Is this an appropiate song for a teacher to teach to 7 and 8 year olds. This is what they are trying to teach my child at present. I´d really appreciate it if anyone could have a look at the words and give me their view on this . TKS



re... : Assault by teacher          
09/06/2008 21:18 - Bullying
-----------------------------------
Hi Deirdreo
I can sympathise with your shock! I can only speak for myself but the school where my son was, the teacher involved admitted it (which is a better response obviously than some here). I´m now at the other end where I am shocked by nothing because nothing happened to this teacher (Principal actually) as a result and if there are no consequences, what is there to stop it happening again? I think its fair to say that the postings acknowledge that it is a tiny minority of teachers who abuse their position and that the vast majority of teachers are not like this. My own son´s traumatic experience of school took a while to get over - but thanks to the warm dedication of his lovely lovely teachers in his new school, he has, I think. Parents will have different opinions of different teachers - no doubt about that. Kids have different natures and some teachers suit some kids better than others. But believe me, you know when a child is deeply unhappy about something - there is a change in their personality and acting out. And I think that is the case in the situations here. In fairness, if you read the posts here, I don´t think the situations involved could be the sort of misunderstanding that you are talking about.

Some kids may be slapped at home and not really think anything of it (nor their parents) - others will be deeply upset at being hit or handled roughly. One person who I told about the Principal slapping the kids asked me what school it was as they thought it sounded a good thing! So opinions differ on this in any case.

But would you agree that where there is a gap in accountability and incidents unaddressed, that human nature being what it is, the odd person will take advantage of that? And if voluntary procedures aren´t followed by schools (there are no mandatory ones as far as I´m aware except in relation to reporting sexual abuse) where can parents go? I have some sympathy with Boards of Management - they have to tread through the minefield of protecting the legal rights of everyone. I don´t think they should be left alone to deal with it, as the Department appear to be doing. I think its likely that the Department don´t want to get involved as they are afraid of being sued. I can remember a case where they successfully argued that they had no responsibility for sexual abuse in a national school.

Can you think, even hypothetically, if such a situation arose, where a teacher hit a child, how could it be addressed, how can anyone be forced to take responsibility for it? At the moment, it seems no one is accountable. Would you agree?




re... : Assault by teacher          
13/06/2008 11:16 - Bullying
-----------------------------------
Moderators Note - Further to Berti´s post below - Details of the content of the Posters are not to be posted as once again this can contribute to school being identified]



Can someone please say what these posters said, exactly. Everyone is talking about them yet no one has said what was written on them.

Cheers,
Berti



re... : Assault by teacher          
01/06/2008 12:23 - Bullying
-----------------------------------
I seem to have deleted a post in error.

Mr. White,
I am in agreement with the parents posting here. The matter of child abuse in schools has been swept under the carpet in the past and has done untold damage to children. It is the duty of us, as parents, to ensure that it does not happen - will not happen ever again.

If you are indeed a school Principal, it would be more appropriate for you to look to your own school to ensure that it is not happening there - rather than requesting deletion of this thread.



re... : Assault by teacher          
02/06/2008 11:38 - Bullying
-----------------------------------
I´m all for raising awareness of child abuse carried out by teachers and the cover-up schools and BOMs go to.

In my son´s case I contacted as many child focused groups and agencies as I could think of. Apart from the Gardai I contacted my local TDs, Councillors, HSE including social workers, Pre-school officers, Childcare Committee, national and local media who were extemely helpful and gave me very useful contacts that helped. I know a number of teachers in other schools and kept them abreast of everything. I recently met the daughter of a school inspector who just happens to live 5 mins walk from me and she´s now fully aware of what happened. Most of all I show the text message from another parent confirming that her child had also been assaulted to as many parents as possible.

My son will be starting secondary school in September and I´ve informed the secondary school of the abuse my child was subjected to and my son´s new principal is a pleasure to deal with.





re... : Assault by teacher          
31/05/2008 22:13 - Bullying
-----------------------------------
Just checked the Prime Time Investigates webpage and they don´t seem to have any contact details there. Would your contact, Chelle be able to raise it? Would it be good if they were contacted by a number of us? I´ve just emailed the children´s ombudsman to ask have they highlighted the issue or done any work on it already. I can understand how you feel your son has been cheated of his year. Like Deisemum i think you are giving your children a great message about not letting other people abuse them. I had only the one child to go through the upheaval in moving schools but he is much happier in his new school and the Principal there seems excellent. I´ve since met and heard of a few parents who have moved their children from the particular school involved and all the children have blossomed in their new schools. I´m up for contacting Prime Time - its a great idea and funny somebody else suggested it to me as well. I missed their programme on bullying which I heard was heartbreaking but really good but what happens if the bully is the teacher? And surely if children see a teacher getting away with bullying, the message goes out that its fair game.



re... : Assault by teacher          
28/05/2008 18:58 - Bullying
-----------------------------------
Hi Chelle. Tks for getting back so quick. It might be just paranoia on my behalf that she has been rejected but i dont think so. when i 1st went to the new school they seemed keen. they then rang me and said that it was not my catchment area and tried to pawn me off to another school. i got back to them and, t told them that the other school they reccommended told me that the info was wrong and that my catchment area was with the this school. i also explained that all my surrounding neighbour kids go to their school and they said thats because the families may have had other family attending?? i then explained that could not be the case because this is a country school and there are at least 6 dublin kids who live in my area and do not have local family here and are attending the school. They got back to me 2 days later and said sorry we are full. I asked how many was in the class and they said 24. I then explained that according to the minister for education, a full class is 27? They could not answer to that but said the principal would be in touch. that was 2 weeks ago and ive been ringing ever since. i cant seem to by pass the rude secertary. Meanwhile, my childs present school are treating me like some kind of trator. I just cant seem to win??? This teacher has pulled my childs hair, refused her a dressing room at swimming lessons and told her that everyone must undress in public, when my child puts her hand up to say she needs help, the teacher replys ´what you want me to do. Call 999´. She constantly texts and talks on her phone while teaching and from local talk she seems to have probs with other kids too. but apparently, no local country mum wants to rock the boat with me on this. i moved from the city to here and when i say Im an outcast to the locals, im an outcast with a very big O. and to make things worse i have now stood up for my daughter and its not going down very well as this teacher is also a local. I admire you chelle and i think i might follow your footsteps. im gonna go all the way with this and fight to have my daughters right to a safe and fair education. tks



re... : Assault by teacher          
29/05/2008 12:54 - Bullying
-----------------------------------
Im delighted for you chelle that you have statements from witnesses. I dont have any so must go this alone. But will keep trying until someone finally realises what is happening must be stopped. I hope your child is doing ok. The poor little mite. I got a bit of news today. i phoned the new school and spoke to the princible at last. a local told me what time the secertary was on her break so i grabbed the phone at this time and finally caught the principal yea!they want progress reports from my childs present school. so i phoned them and they told me it will be ready in one week. fingers crossed my wee one will be out of there soon. Im still going ahead with my research tho. Apparently 2 years ago, another family removed their son from same school because the same teacher smacked him in the face and dragged him across the room. When the family approahed the principal, she apolagised and claimed that the teacher was having a bad day and that she did it because she thought the pupil was going to hit her?? because the boy had been somewhat troublesome in the past at school, the family did nothing and just removed him. They even moved to a new town. I now have their names and town they moved to so am trying to locate them to see if they will give a statement. fingers crossed on that too. Good luck Chelle and i hope your little boy finds the teacher he deserves.



re... : Assault by teacher          
27/05/2008 05:55 - Bullying
-----------------------------------
Its amazing how its only when you are involved in a very mad situation that you realise that you wouldn´t believe it if you heard it. I think there is very clearly a gap in legislation that leaves children very vulnerable in schools between as you say the HSE /Dept / BOM. Is it up to parents to take criminal or civil cases against the teachers /BOM to address this or are there other ways? However I don´t believe all schools are like this but experience shows where there are vulnerable people in a vulnerable situation some people will exploit that. I really hope Chelle that your little one is doing okay.




re... : Assault by teacher          
22/02/2008 19:13 - Bullying
-----------------------------------
Bernie, I´m glad you stayed strong. The most frightening thing is that principals and BOMs have so much power, an alarming amount. It´s so sad because all the other teachers are so nice but there´s always one bad apple! We will fight this to the end, we will get justice, im certain of that. As i said we have other parents in the same boat so we´re not alone. Stick with it Bernie, I have some idea of what you are going through, it´s an emotional rollercoaster. We feel like we´re on a merry go round and want to get off! Then one minute you get a bit of good news and the next it´s swiped away with some more bad. I swear if I didn´t know this story I´d believe the principal, he´s so manipulative and that´s what he´s done to the BOM. No one can believe that we never got a hearing. Did you try the equality authority? would they be any help to you as I´ve heard great reports about them. Hang in there, keep digging you´ll find something.



re... : Assault by teacher          
22/02/2008 18:04 - Bullying
-----------------------------------
Hi Kate,

Thanks for your support. The BOM are a waste of time. They are standing firmly behind the teacher. Don´t get me wrong, we know she is effectively innocent until proven guilty but the fact that we were never heard is very suspicious. The principal has said "children tell lies". I pointed out to him that he was not in the room so it doen´t matter what he thinks. My son has regressed to wetting/soiling himself, it´s heartbreaking and he misses his pals. I have written to minister hanafin but people tell me not to pin my hopes on any minister but I remain hopeful that someone out there with "child centred" priorities will come through for us.



re... : Assault by teacher          
06/06/2008 09:51 - Bullying
-----------------------------------
Jen01

You posted

"At this stage Chelle you seem to be mainly looking for profile yourself with Primetime, Gerry Ryan and all, at the expense of your child".

I don´t happen to agree with your view point but I´m very curious and wondering if you have a vested interest in this case?

(modified by Schooldays.ie - please do not identify any individuals)



re... : Assault by teacher          
07/06/2008 17:42 - Bullying
-----------------------------------
HI PAL,

I would like to respond to your post. You are spot on about the "wanting to know all the facts."

Unfortunately the moderators will not allow it since names etc would have to be disclosed, however the Gardai, from the facts found it serious enough to investigate it. Then the Gardai referred it to the Director of Public Prosecutions. So in the instant case the Gardai did not disallow it, the DPP did; there is a big difference.

The charge of assault is NOT a grevious charge. Its definition can be found in Section 2 of the Non Fatal Offences Against the Person Act, 1997. You can see this on www.irishstatutebook.ie

Unfortunately children are equally easy targets, especially when they depend on ´responsible´ adults - not to just believe them - but to properly investigate the complaint.

Cheers, J4K



re... : Assault by teacher          
05/06/2008 14:36 - Bullying
-----------------------------------
A Chara,

I have been following this thread since it began and am wondering where it is going. I am sorry to say but I have been thru all of this before: followed the right procedures: dotted all the i´s and crossed all the t´s but it was a complete waste of time. I am sorry to throw the spanner in the works but there is no substantial help out there.

The National Parents Council use answering machines. The Parent Teachers Association are effectively run by the board of management. The DoE & Sc are a complete shower of wasters; the HSE may as well be looking into a hole after what I saw on the Primetime report a few weeks ago. What the hell is going on??

When the sh*& hits the fan the management of schools tighten up like a clam and they court the other parents with lies and double-speak without ever telling them the full story. They twist and turn the complaint in such a way as to blame everything on the children and the parents who reported the abuse. They´re cowards who throw stones and run like the clappers, send letters and don´t have the manners to reply. These people think they can do what they like but with rarely even talk to you face to face, which is the sign of a real coward. They should be ashamed of themselves.

All of this sounds like text book stuff, open your mouth and you´re the worst in the world, everyone can´t stand the sight of you for ratting on the school. Look, this thread is filled with good dialog but where exactly is it going?? Is there anyone out there who can rise above all this goddamn bureaucracy and get people to take this sh*& seriously.

Slan (sorry for the language) :grr: :grr:



re... : Assault by teacher          
13/06/2008 12:48 - Bullying
-----------------------------------
Folks

We are locking down this thread now. Unfortunately it is deteriorating into personal attacks rather than being a constructive debate. We will consider whether to re-open the thread at a later date.

Schooldays.ie



re... : Assault by teacher          
13/06/2008 11:17 - Bullying
-----------------------------------
Moderators Note on thread below- AMOS you are not new to this thread - you have posted under a number of different aliases before (mary6 & Pal along with a few others we deleted) so don´t mislead readers


Hi All,

I am new to this thread, so forgive me if I dont have all the facts. If this happened to me I dont think I could take the strain and stress and I would move my child. I undertand Chelle that this is not an option for you, each to their own. How much time in total has your boy missed from school? Will he have to repeat the year? Isn´t there a rule when your child misses 20 days you have to be reported to a welfare board? Why do you think these problems will go away in September? Your son might have a new teacher but the same principal and same BOM, and the same parents. How will you deal with that? You say your health is already suffering, how long are you going to give this before your health gives up? I dont think you would be sending a message to your son that you are giving up. I think he would understand that his mammy´s health means more. If I were you I would fight to the end to have this teacher brought to book, but I would have my children in another school and away from any bad feeling that might have built up. Your families happiness must be paramount. Good luck.





re... : Assault by teacher          
13/06/2008 09:55 - Bullying
-----------------------------------
Chelle

Don´t let other people bother you. All very well and good for those who´ve never had to experience child abuse carried out by teachers, it doesn´t mean other pupils haven´t been abused. There will always be people who will try and cover up child abuse. There are still plenty of creeping jesus types in this country.

At the very least Chelle you had the back bone to stand up for your child and not take the cowardly route that some other parents have taken when confronted with abuse. You´re the parent who´s child will know that you didn´t condone him being the victim of child abuse. You can hold your head up




re... : Assault by teacher          
02/06/2008 10:57 - Bullying
-----------------------------------
Hi all,
I have a contact for a senior reporter in primetime. I will not post it but you can contact me at dogwolfhound@yahoo.ie It would be nice if Mr White would join in on this forum again



re... : Assault by teacher          
22/02/2008 17:56 - Bullying
-----------------------------------
Hi Bernie,

It´s so great to get a reply. Just seen the principal again and to sum it up he doesn´t believe the children. He says this teacher is great. Why would he put his career on the line for a teacher? The whole thing smells. I just have to get to the bottom of it and I will. I´m sorry for your own situation, this happened in our school too and it was the same as you described. A very hairy story but I can´t go into the details on the web. We´ve hired a private tutor for my son and the other child and it looks like he´ll be out till sept now as in this school the teachers change classes yearly.



re : Assault by teacher          
03/06/2008 21:28 - Bullying
-----------------------------------
Hello,

Your poor son, I can greatly sympathise. The state of education in this country is horrendous! Too many situations such as these gets swept under the carpet due to the "parent who cried wolf" scenario. It´s shocking to think that some parents can mistake being moved gently by a teacher when more extreme and serious cases are happening all over the country.
I sincerely hope that your child recovers from this trauma. How was your child assaulted again?

Yours faithfully,
Concerned for Safety.



re... : Assault by teacher          
31/05/2008 10:13 - Bullying
-----------------------------------
Deisemum that is so horrifying and I hope your son is doing well. You are confirming though what I suspect that, as in any area where vulnerable people are unprotected, bullying individuals will take advantage and it seems children in our schools are in that vulnerable situation. They are not being protected by the Dept. and many BOMs and Principals are not protecting them either. I talk about what happened in my son´s school left, right and centre too to raise awareness. I´m gobsmacked that many parents just do not want to know. Does anyone else here - Bernie, I think you mentioned it, feel there´s a campaigning organisation germinating here? I know we are all busy parents but it wouldn´t have to be too organised - just each other helping each other out getting the message out to
1) always reports assaults by teachers immediately to the Gardai (Dept/BOM/HSE will be so ineffective and slow that statute of limitations will run out and it will be too late to do anything)
2) draw awareness to the vulnerability of children in schools (has the Children´s Ombudsman or Barnardos done anything on this?)
3) awareness raise and lobby anywhere and everywhere for stronger legislation to protect children in our schools (its unfair to have to involve children in criminal proceedings where it could be avoided).
4) how do we get the children to be sure to tell us?
5) is any other group doing this already?

Any other ideas? I´m going to check with the Children´s Ombudsman and Barnardos this weekend.
You´d of thought given this country´s history that people would have learned that nothing changes through looking the other way. Perhaps parents who don´t want to know feel too scared to do anything - but sounds like there are some very forthright, honest and brave parents here - lets make some noise about how children are very vulnerable to physical abuse.



re... : Assault by teacher          
31/05/2008 16:21 - Bullying
-----------------------------------
Fortunately in our case the other teachers and the school secretary know I´m not the sort to back down nor let them get away with mistreating my children and they are making sure they are treating my children in a fair and friendly manner. Guess they don´t want the Gardai coming after them too lol.

At the end of the day I know I can look my child in the eye and he knows I wasn´t a coward and stood up for him. The other children in the classroom have to live with the fact that their parents were too cowardly to defend them



re... : Assault by teacher          
08/06/2008 17:52 - Bullying
-----------------------------------
When my son was assaulted we chose not to go to the Gardai but in the end we had to because of how the principal´s behaviour ie, following our son around the yard at breaktime, being bullied by a child of one of the school´s teachers etc.

After contacting the Gardai and just wanting our complaint put on file we got a phone call shortly after from the seargant who said our allegation was too serious to just leave on file. The Gardai believed our allegation and having the text from another parent confirming that her son had also been abused by the same teacher they felt a file had to be prepared and sent to the DPP. They did advise us that the statute of limitation was very limited and that the teacher would possibly get off on a technicality which is what happened but that it still should be done anyway.

It´s 3 years since our son was assaulted and only this week my son had some of his classmates round to our home. Everyone of those boys remember this abusive teacher hitting pupils including my son.

In the last year I´ve encountered past pupils of our school who clearly remember seeing this teacher hitting other pupils, I got chatting to a woman on a train journey and in the course of our conversation local schools were discussed. She was able to tell me that her next door neighbour had to remove her children from our school after how the mother was treated by the principal when they raised a serious allegation.

Again like other parents who´ve posted here the BOM did not follow the Children First protocal nor any other procedure apart from sweep it under the carpet. Not once did the BOM meet with us, they just sent us letters that they investigated it and there was no allegation to answer.

I agree with Anja and it is obvious to me what is going on with the aggressive treatment aimed at Chelle here considering the chances of a particular person having a vested interest in her case.

You know one thing I´ve picked up from working with children and having done a number of child protection courses is that "Not all children tell lies and not all adults tell the truth".

It´s the good teachers that I feel sorry for when they´ve got colleagues whose behaviour tars them all with the one brush.




re... : Assault by teacher          
07/06/2008 18:25 - Bullying
-----------------------------------
Hi Pal,

Perhaps you should bother to read the thread before you launch straight in with your hot air! Are you a parent? If not you haven´t a clue about this thread or how a parent feels. If you are a parent, well that´s even worse. I wouldn´t even dignify your post with any further answers.

You should post on a thread you know something about and stop making yourself look like such a fool. This thread is a support system of victims of abuse and their parents.

Walk a mile in my shoes PAL!

Chelle



re... : Assault by teacher          
09/06/2008 21:50 - Bullying
-----------------------------------
[This thread has been amended by the moderator as references within it could result in the school being identified. we would remind posters once again that such references will result in the thread being suspended]


Hi Deirdreo,

I take your point, but the fact is we have letters from many people outlining their concerns about this teacher. Complaints have been made in respect of this teacher in the past. The recent MO matches the contents of the letters and emails sent to us.

Thankfully this is only one teacher out of a whole bunch of fantastic teachers. In fact I think that if the whole situation had been handled in the way it should have been without the constant denial, this teacher could have been helped. I can (paradoxically) say that the teacher is an excellent academic teacher and she is hugely talented in many quarters.

Deirdreo, we are just looking for fairness in a system which unfortunately is geared against children in this situation. The parents and other teaching staff see the complaint as an attack on the school, whereas it is anything but.

I will end this by saying the following; it was not just what our child said to make me believe, it was the way in which the complaint had been dealt with and the defensive reactions by the Principal, the teacher and the Board of Management, along with their inactions and trivialisation. This which solidified more so my suspicions, along with the verified past conduct of the teacher.

Thanks for listening.



re... : Assault by teacher          
10/06/2008 23:48 - Bullying
-----------------------------------
Deleted by moderator



re... : Assault by teacher          
31/05/2008 22:58 - Bullying
-----------------------------------
I think this is a load of cods wollop, how come nobody has taken this to court, and how come there has been so many posts about this, I smell a rat I think the mods should stop this discussion now untill it has been resolved.

I also think that there is someone here that is using a few different aliases to make a point or build some sort of story. These People or Person has not come up with any evidence from what I can see so the mods need to stop this NOW before this valuable platform gets shut down.



re... : Assault by teacher          
07/06/2008 22:23 - Bullying
-----------------------------------
Hi Jen01/Jane

You seem to be the alias on this site.
Chelle



re... : Assault by teacher          
29/05/2008 09:44 - Bullying
-----------------------------------
Hi chelle,
Just wanted to know if you´re still sending your child to THAT school ?. sounds terrible. It seems like a lot of hassle for you and your children to go through.
Best of luck




re... : Assault by teacher          
04/06/2008 19:26 - Bullying
-----------------------------------
Hi folks
Just catching up with all any email addresses to email you. I remember hearing a while ago that its best to use (a) rather @ when posting email addresses as you can get alot of spam if email goes up on web. Not sure if this still the case as my IT knowledge is low but just in case....




re... : Assault by teacher          
11/06/2008 10:21 - Bullying
-----------------------------------
JusticeForKid´s access to our discussion boards has been suspended for two weeks as their posting in the early hours of this morning attemps to link this thread with another website which identifies the school. Schooldays.ie policy continues to be that schools and indviduals are not to be identified through this thread, regardless of whether they are named in other media outlets. Links or references to other sources of information on the school will be deleted.

JusticeForKids can seek re-activation of their account after a two week period by emailing info@schooldays.ie

Schooldays Moderator



re... : Assault by teacher          
01/06/2008 17:17 - Bullying
-----------------------------------
Yes you are most definately right justice for kids, that there are some impeccible teachers out there. In my childs last school she did junior and senior infants. She had 2 different teachers for each year. They were absolutely brilliant. She came on in leaps and bounds. she couldnt wait to get to school every morning. I would never knock all teachers because the majority are great and were would our kids be without them. But, unfortunately, not all teachers go by the book. Some feel they are a law unto themselves. This is morally wrong and needs to be stopped.



re... : Assault by teacher          
29/05/2008 11:06 - Bullying
-----------------------------------
Hi All,

Looks like this thread has opened up alot of bad memories for lots of people. It´s great to talk to like minded people who have their children´s safety as their priority. Just reading back over the thread and I realise I omitted some very important points. We have been members of this school community for the past 4 years. During that time we have donated time and resources to the school. I have been a very active member of the PTA. We thought this school was just so great. The parent body were great too. Now when this happened just like some of you, isolation becomes evident. It´s a lonely place to be but I can sleep in bed at night knowing that I did all I could to protect my son. I taught him a very valuable life skill...........that people cannot treat you in that manner. I didn´t ask this teacher to pull my son across the room by the hood of his jumper and leave him to cry with no dignity! I wouldn´t treat a dog in that manner. What the parent community don´t know is that anything we have said is fact and can be proven. The parents don´t know also that a number of children were named in a statement to the Gardai and they aren´t even aware that their child was abused too. I understand that parent´s don´t want to rock the boat and cause attention to themselves but in this situation the teachers change yearly so my problem will be someone else´s problem next year! Our son´s assault was not an isolated (Bad day) thing, it´s been going on since 2004. We too have letters from parents recording the reported incidents to the Principal but to no avail. I really pity the other teachers in our school, they are fantastic, energetic and enthuasiastic, it´s a crime that such a great school is allowing ONE teacher of that calibre to remain teaching in the school. I´ve had to remove my son again as the same teacher said she was going to get him a pink soother! He cried his eyes out. He said "everybody was laughing at me Mam". I can´t send him back to that, I´d be irresponsible if I did. These parents will know the truth soon enough and some will be left with a serious amount of egg on their face!!Is there any teachers reading these posts? Would you as a teacher want to be associated with a colleague like this?



re... : Assault by teacher          
03/06/2008 01:53 - Bullying
-----------------------------------
Hi all,
Just to let you know that there is an interesting forum at



re... : Assault by teacher          
02/06/2008 10:23 - Bullying
-----------------------------------
I am only an alias for one person! I was involved in another forum (the school concerning my son runs a small number of schools worldwide and have there have been other physical and emotional abuse scandals - horrific abuse in their London school) and its amazing the strength of denial. I can´t imagine why anyone would think someone would willingly make this stuff up! Though I guess it happens occassionally. Anyway, it doesn´t matter. The fact is that children in our schools are vulnerable because BOMs and the Dept. cannot be forced to be accountable.

Thanks Deisemum for your advice -you´ve obviously been through all the hoops. Shame it was featured on Newstalk and no one picked it up from there.
I´ll write to Prime Time next week too.




re... : Assault by teacher          
12/06/2008 16:58 - Bullying
-----------------------------------
Hi Rosie,
As a teacher myself, I was very wary when I first read this thread. It is my worst nightmare (after anything hurting my loved ones) that I would ever be accused falsely of some sort of misconduct and removed from the job I love in shame. I have seen the ´True Story´ films, I have felt the irrational fear. When I first read these posts my gut reaction was disbelief. But I am a level headed and intelligent woman. I know that it is very very unlikely I would end up in such a scenario. If a spiteful parent did manage to create a vengeful plot such as this there would be no witness to back her up and no past complaints. I know this because I know myself. I have heard the evidence from these parents and I find it very upsetting but very plausible. I have now heard your view, asked two simple questions and gotten no response. I think I know which side of the fence I fall on now.
Well done Rosie.



re... : Assault by teacher          
01/06/2008 13:35 - Bullying
-----------------------------------
Just wanna say that any of the parents interested in going further with this can email me privately. bonnie@mail.org



re... : Assault by teacher          
26/05/2008 21:54 - Bullying
-----------------------------------
Hi,

Thr problem has taken some more sinister twists recently and we would be interested in highligting the issues with the media. You can give us your contact details via ´childrenfirst764@gmail.com


Thanks
Chelle



re... : Assault by teacher          
12/06/2008 16:26 - Bullying
-----------------------------------
Rosie,

You obviously haven´t a clue what´s going on in your school. What kind of person would make up such lies? You actually sound like a parent from my school and if it was my school that you were talking about believe me you are barking up the wrong tree!

How dare you slate parents for listening to their children. This is how abusers thrive. The teacher in my son´s case as I´ve said already has had cases like this, admittedly they didn´t go to the DPP but during my case it emerged by a staff member that she had witnessed the same teacher as my son had physically and mentally abuse another child. Is this staff member a liar too?

God help your children if that´s the way you support parents who are close to breaking point. Thank goodness I don´t have friends like that. I agree innocent until proven guilty, did you never hear of ´no smoke without fire´? Myself and the other parents involved in my son´s case were very active parents on the PTA and BOM. The other lady actually set up the school? Can you say that about yourself? Do you contribute as much to your school as I have? You´d want to take the time to get the FACTS ROSIE! No case gets to the DPP without foundation





re... : Assault by teacher          
12/06/2008 16:51 - Bullying
-----------------------------------
Hi Deirdre,
Thanks, I am very upset. Just so low these days and when people that don´t have a clue what my child is like now think the know the full story by reading words it is very upsetting. The reason I used the word ´lies´ is that one of the first things the Principal said to me is "children tell lies". Imagine, I´m there telling him how upset my son is and what happened and he tells me that!

As I´ve said already Deirdre, ANY parent could´ve been in this position. I DIDN´T ASK FOR THIS TO HAPPEN TO MY SON! If only we could us voice overs.......I´d be shouting!!!

Rosie seems to be very knowledgable about the whole incident in her school. Did she witness it? Perhaps she could´ve helped with investigations???

Thanks to all the people with compassion for myself and the other parents on the thread. I´m not afraid to answer any questions from parents in my school, I can back anything up with proof (mostly written). I understand parents would be annoyed with posters, I wouldn´t find that acceptable either.

I´d like to ask Rosie, what is the purpose of her post? What would she have done if she was faced with the same situation? With regards to moving children to another school, I was trying to sort a problem out for every child in the school. I understand now much to my despair and at the expense of my health that I can´t do that alone but moving my children is not the answer. My son is not the problem. Also, every other member of staff bar the principal and THE teacher is fabulous and in 4 years in the school I´ve never had a problem, pity for me it didn´t stay that way.

Thanks again Deirdre, you sound like a lovely person and I´d be glad to have a teacher for my kids or a friend like you.

Chelle



re... : Assault by teacher          
12/06/2008 16:13 - Bullying
-----------------------------------
I think to try and involve other parents is totally wrong. Quite a number of parents were approached regarding donations to school and telling them not to donate as it will go towards solictors fee´s. This is totally inappropriate as other parents now just walk away from these individuals. They have caused more harm than good.. If we want to get silly you could call this "bullying and harrasment from the parents involved now". As I say innocent until proven guilty but they have handled it totally wrong..



re... : Assault by teacher          
05/06/2008 12:16 - Bullying
-----------------------------------
Hi Jen01
Maybe you are just being controversial for the sake of it or maybe you are expressing your heartfelt view. In any case, I wonder if you are aware that you are repeating the hoary old chestnuts that have always been trotted out by reactionaries against change - that those seeking change are attention-seekers and that the system in place "didn´t do us any harm". The same things were said when victims tried to raise awareness of sexual abuse, of abuse in industrial schools, of women who had had children by priests/bishops etc etc. Its a tired old argument and totally irrelevant in my view. Experience has shown where there is an accountability gap (in any sphere of life) there are a minority who will exploit it. Where children are concerned clearly this is a major issue of public importance.

How individual families choose to deal with it with their children is entirely their private business and not open to criticism in my view, as we all do our best as parents. Those who can manage the situation privately, and additionally try to bring about change publicly, are extraordinarily civic-minded and thank goodness for them or these issues would never get an airing.

I agree with you in believing firmly in the resilience of children. But personally i rather not rely on the resilience of children and hope for the best as a course of action - my preference is for the adults involved to take the appropriate responsibility and if they won´t, to be forced to.

Also, use of an alias is basic common practice on message boards - there is no conspiracy to it!



re... : Assault by teacher          
27/05/2008 20:20 - Bullying
-----------------------------------
Hi Anja,
this subject of abusive teachers makes my blood boil. Two years ago I had to move my son to a new school. He is very happy now thank God. The Board of Management and the teacher put my son and my family through hell and back. I as a mother have still not got over the hurt and pain. I think it will stay with me until the day I die. The way they covered up for her was a disgrace and they are still covering up. They all should be named and shamed and exposed to the media by parents. Boards of Managements are a waste of time.



re... : Assault by teacher          
07/06/2008 22:07 - Bullying
-----------------------------------
Hi Chelle,
Firstly I disagree with you again . Pal is perfectly entitled to air their views on this discussion board. If you want a "support system " where your points are not going to be challenged go elsewhere!

I am glad to see someone else adding a bit of serious debate to the discussion. I agree it should be entitled "Alleged Assult by teacher" as the DPP are not going to bring charges anytime soon ( any more evidence ?).

I have read this thread several times and as a parent of both primary and secondary school pupils , I have seen very little which would help me to tackle the issue of a assult on a child by a teacher. Most of what has been posted here has been playing on peoples fears and angers.

Deisemum, I do feel you went through hell and back and I do understand your anger at the system. I´m glad you and your child found a suitable school truly. My only vested interest here is in being a parent myself. ( Not sure what the rest of your post was about as it was modified)

Anja , I think you are the only one who has suggested a practical approach. Fast action with all the parties is probably the best way to deal with the issue. ( obviously where possible !).

Finally Justice4Kids, whats with the Rosa Parks stuff, didn´t she have the backing of the American Civil Liberties groups. Enough!. If demonstrations outside schools is the best you can come up with here´s something a bit more recent and closer to home ...Holy Cross Primary School Belfast. Remember how popular that was?!! You´ll win no support from the parent body for your cause by scaring their kids. I would be livid as a parent if I had to run the gauntlet of a demonstration to get my child to school in the morning.

Have a Nice Weekend
Jenny Mc










re... : Assault by teacher          
31/05/2008 16:06 - Bullying
-----------------------------------
Hi Deisemum,

Our case has come back from the DPP, they won´t be prosecuting at the moment. The sargeant said the file will remain open pending further evidence and our case could be prosecuted at a later date. The other case highlighted through ours missed the 6month time limit otherwise we would have had her. The fact that it got to the DPP is enough in itself to have a teacher put on suspension. It would have been better for all concerned.

Still in a quander about moving. The other teachers are giving us the cold shoulder. It´s particularly difficult for me having know them all before this happened and always being greeted with a smile. They turn away now when they see me. I hate it. I´m a very easy going person and I loved being able to go up to the school to collect my kids and have a chat with ANY of the other mums but that´s not the case now. If my husband can´t collect them now I don´t send them. I´ve been very very down for the past few weeks. It´s really got hold of me and hearing some of the gossipers comments is soul destroying. Don´t get me wrong, I´m not a shallow or needy person who needs constant approval but when I know the truth and I look at my son and the change in him I just can´t understand how any parent (in particular mothers)can react so coldly to another parents misery and hardship. It exactly like described, unless it happens to them they don´t know. I don´t know how many times people have looked at me and said "IF that was my child...............I wouldn´t be responsible". That just isn´t me.

I feel if I stay in that school my kids are labelled not only by the teachers but the other kids parents. I do have the very BIG fear that I could be going from the frying pan into the fire. That really freaks me and with 4 children the odds are against me.

I´d be of the same opinion as you........if it does happen again I´d be down to the Gardai ASAP. I´d go through the motions at the school but we all know where that leads. It´s obvious that the BOM would rather face parents than the Teachers Union.

Keep up the good work with your networking.......bless your energy!
Chelle



re... : Assault by teacher          
01/06/2008 17:39 - Bullying
-----------------------------------
Primetime would be a good route to go, so would the Irish Examiner as they´re reported on a number of cases in recent years where BOM´s have been fined where teachers and SNAs have assaulted young pupils. Back in December the Gardai and HSE ´s Child Protection Dept. had to deal with the conduct of a principal in a primary school in Cork.

Regarding the name mrwhite well in my county there are a couple of school principals with that name.



re... : Assault by teacher          
31/05/2008 00:01 - Bullying
-----------------------------------
My family have been there, done that when it comes to child abuse in schools.
My son was only 9 when we found out that he was one of many who´d been repeated hit and thumped by a male teacher. My husband phoned the principal and told him that the male teacher that had hit our son was never to touch him again. The principal wasn´t even taken aback or surprised by this. My mother in law had taught in that school for over 20 years but was retired so we were able to get some inside information.

A lot of the other pupils in the class were also hit and thumped and I still have a text message from another parent confirming that her son had also been hit but she like a lot of other parents were too afraid to even report it to the principal or gardai. The pupils were hit or thumped if they didn´t answer a question quickly enough or if they got the answer wrong, not because of misbehaving or anything like that.

We ended up having a number of meetings with the principal who decided to cover up the whole thing. Other teachers and SNAs were prepared to lie and cover up by claiming this male teacher always had another adult in the classroom yet when I´d collected my son early from class for various appointments before the assault came to light there was never another adult in the classroom with this teacher.

At out meetings with the principal he´d rant, roar and shout at us, thump the wall, his desk, throw papers around the place, totally out of control. Never once did we raise our voices to him as I took the opposite route by letting him rant away and not interrupt him so he´d eventually run out of steam until there was silence when my husband or myself would say something and then he´d start off again.

He kept threatening us that if we didn´t retract our allegation then there would be very serious consequences for us. After a number of meetings with him he realised we were not going to back down so he arranged another appointment for us to meet him. He did the big build up to what he was going to do then he thought he´d play what he thought was his trump card into scaring us into dropping our allegation. He took delight in telling us that he was going to report me to social services and other HSE staff to have me investigated for child abuse in my home. I´m a notified childminder so you can imagine what that would do to my reputation. I replied to go ahead that I´d already reported the assault to social services anyway.

I had already contacted the gardai before this meeting and we´d made statements to them. It is a waste of time contacting the Dept of Education because they know the statute of limitation is about 6 months for such an assault and they will drag their so called investigation out way past that. Then they will inform you that they are not responsible for what goes on in schools as they are not the teachers employers. It´s the BOM who employ teachers and they are the ones responsible for what goes on in schools. Anyway once the gardai get involved the Dept of Education will not have anything to do with the case.

The gardai were very good in our case but the statute of limitation had long passed and even though a file was sent to the DPP the teacher got off on a technicality. However it is now common knowledge in my city as I take every opportunity to raise awareness of child abuse in primary schools. Since it came to light that my son had been assaulted I´ve heard of so many other cases in different schools. We´ve got family and friends who are teachers and they´ve told us it´s widespread and that´s coming from the inside track. We´ve also been told that the teaching unions have warned teachers that even if they witness a teacher doing something that´s wrong that they are never to grass a colleague.

I´ve spoken on national radio about what happened to us and got overwhelming support. There were the few texts in response from teachers saying that it doesn´t happen.

Personally I wouldn´t waste time or effort dealing with the Dept of Eduction or BOM. They are not the body responsible for dealing with crime. It is the Gardai and the Dept of Justice that have that responsibility not schools or BOMs. Assault is a crime and it´s the Gardai that such crimes should be reported. Let the BOM do their own "investigation" if they want, if it´s anything like the one they did in our school it will be a cover up. Not once did the BOM meet with us. The teacher who assaulted our son wasn´t even suspended pending an investigation.

The Gardai "dealt" with the principal for threatening us. If the principal even spots me he now turns on his heal and flees. I thought the rest of the teaching staff must see me as a pariah but I was stunned to recently find out that the majority of them have great respect for me for having stood up the bullying teacher and they take great delight that I´ve rattled the principal.




re... : Assault by teacher          
01/06/2008 15:36 - Bullying
-----------------------------------
Hi There,
I think it is very important to highlight that the majority of teachers are excellent. In a problem we´re experiencing the teachers unfortunately have to close ranks and are now ignoring us because of ´spin´ from the Board and the Principal. But again, in our case it is very surprising that the complaint we made on behalf of our child went to the DPP. Maybe Mr White would care to comment on that? The Board seems to be untouchable and there should be an Ombudsman for Boards of Management. In actual fact the pressure that is exerted on Boards of Management is unfair because they are voluntary and they are at the end of the put there to protect the Department of Education and Science. All of this turns very sour when Boards are faced with something serious as an assault on a child. I say there should be an Ombudsman for Boards of Management, which is the idea of a friend of ours. I however, think it is important that Mr White is encouraged to debate on this.



re... : Assault by teacher          
03/06/2008 16:47 - Bullying
-----------------------------------
Hi Mary6, Thanks for the support on this important issue. Martin Luther King Jr once said "One who condones evils is just as guilty as the one who perpetrates it."



re... : Assault by teacher          
03/06/2008 22:06 - Bullying
-----------------------------------
There´s a big difference between a teacher gently moving a pupil along and physical pain. My son plays rugby and gets plenty of hard knocks, bruises, cuts from tackles and hitting the ground yet he had to try and not reveal his tears in front of his classmates.

I happened to be in secondary school when corporal punishment was banned. After that came into effect I along with the rest of the class witnessed a male teacher punch a leaving cert boy in the face and split his mouth and surrounding soft tissue. This teacher is still teaching and still hitting pupils but now he hands out cash everytime he loses it.



re... : Assault by teacher          
12/06/2008 17:48 - Bullying
-----------------------------------
Hi Ya Rosie,

In connection to the ´posters´ you have mentioned maybe you could let the forum know exactly what they said, verbatim, not necessarily your interpretation.

Have you seen them yourself.

Also maybe you could comment on the ´no comment´ stance on two occasions in light of such allegations.

You are correct about the "innocent until proven guilty", but how would you honestly feel if your child was involved. 99% of teachers and SNAs in that school are absolutely fantastic.

It is very easy for people who don´t want to know, to choose to be deaf to ALL the facts. So unless a person knows all the facts they can never be in a position to comment on a specific situation without showing to the world the prejudices that are all so convenient to air.

Cheers,
Berti S




re... : Assault by teacher          
28/05/2008 19:54 - Bullying
-----------------------------------
hi Mariepaula. My prob is that the locals will speak so much to me but wont put it in writing. They know it goes on but wont do anything to stop it. Even tho they have children themselves in same class. My child was making herself ill every morning when it was time to go to school. It makes me really angry to think that some mothers can just ignore the fact that their kids are being deprived of a normal education. my child loved her last school before we moved. she was top of the class. now she hates the word school and has no interest any more. I reassure all the time that things will get better but i feel like im lying to her coz i know that this teacher will never change and why should she when she has the principal fighting her corner. Apparently, she and the principal are best friends. I was the 1st to ever go to the dept of education in this school and i will probably be the last. Its so unfair that these people are let away with this. Funny you mention the local priest. when i moved in, he called to welcome us. in conversation i mentioned i like art. he asked me if i could do some posters for the church and i agreed. every time he needed something done, he would ring and i would have it done for him. soon as i complained re: the assault from teacher, he never rang me again and totally ignored us at mass. and guess what? he also is on the schools board of management. tks for posting back.



re... : Assault by teacher          
09/06/2008 00:26 - Bullying
-----------------------------------
Hi Deisimum,

Yes the limitation on a summary offence is very unfair. It is highly advantageous to those who assaut and don´t leave a visible mark.

This limitation only occurs when the alleged offence is a summary offence. It does not operate when it is an indictable offence which generally means that the least possible sanction for a successful prosecution is 5 years imprisonment.

Section 2 assaults fall under ´summary´ offences whereas section 3 (assaults causing harm) fall under indictable offences.

Your son is very brave.

You could take a civil case but will be subjected to the Statute of Limitations Act, 1957 (as amended, the 1991 Act) and lately the Courts and Civil Liabilty Act 2005 (depending on when the alleged harm occurred) the limitation for damage is that an action must be taken within 2 years. Check with a good lawyer to see if you have a case.

"Disability" in respect of your child under section 5 of the Statute of Limitations (Amendment) Act, 1991 Act may interest you. You should ask a GOOD lawyer about this. If you cannot afford a lawyer go to your local Citizens Advice Bureau or a Free Legal Aid Centre who can be contacted at www.flac.ie to arrange a consultation and ask them (it´s free).

As an aside I see that Jen01 put on a post at 22.58 yesterday evening but I can´t seem to find it.

Come back Jen01, Mr White, PAL, Mary6. Where are ye?? Get back online!!!

Cheers,
J4K






re... : Assault by teacher          
09/06/2008 01:17 - Bullying
-----------------------------------
I am happy your son has a great teacher now, because there are so many great teachers out there. I could name many from the school where my daughter is from but the moderators would not allow it, but I can say that the majority of the teachers out there in the Irish educational system are absolutely fabulous, but for the one or two who unfortunately call it into disrepute.

Cheers,
J4K



re : Assault by teacher          
25/05/2008 17:03 - Bullying
-----------------------------------
Hi there

Just wondering if this problem is still ongoing and if you wanted to talk to a journalist about the matter? If so I can help you out. you can remain anon but this sounds like something that needs to be highlighted...




re... : Assault by teacher          
07/06/2008 22:58 - Bullying
-----------------------------------
Hi Jen,

I wholeheartedly agree with you that views should be aired but having said that DOD et al would NOT permit us to speak on behalf our the children. How sad is that.

Lets be honest here the only thing that is annoying people is that we are NOT standing for how our children are being treated. Thankfully, this happens sometimes.

Generally Schools and Boards of Management are filled with hugely professional and well-meaning people but unfortunately not all are blessed with how to deal with certain matters and would rather take the old fashioned route of sweeping and spinning.

It is no secret that Rosa Parkes stood up for what she thought was right and I feel that a nerve has been stuck, as nerves had been severly struck at the time she would not give her seat on the bus to a white man. She was a real crusader for genuine all different all equal. If it has struck a nerve I am truly sorry.

We never at any stage expected our child´s complaint to be believed but we did expect it to be investigated, at the very very least. The whole thing was a sham. That is all, plain and simple.

Thanks



re : Assault by teacher          
22/02/2008 16:14 - Bullying
-----------------------------------
That sounds like an awful situation to be in. You´ve probably already done this but just in case you haven´t, make sure you put your issues in writing to the BOM. The Dept of Educ sets out a procedure on it´s website as to how complaints are supposed to be handled. There is also a copy of it on this schooldays website http://www.schooldays.ie/articles/bullying-complaints-at-primary-level.. I´m not sure if the procedure is relevant to your case but either way it is important to ensure that your concerns and your request for an investigation are in writing. It is very difficult for the BOM to ignore the issue if there is a written complaint on the record. It might also be useful to send copies of your correspondence to the Ministers Office and also to enquire whether the procedure set out in the above link is relevant to you.

Not sure if any of that helps. I can´t understand how if the Gardai have sent a file to the DPP the teacher hasn´t been suspended pending an investigation?



re... : Assault by teacher          
08/06/2008 14:00 - Bullying
-----------------------------------
Hi J4K,

Thank you for your clarification. In summary, due process has occurred as the DPP would never proceed where there was a paucity of evidence - and round and round we go with no conclusion if a parent really believes their child´s words, perceptions etc.are true - as undoubtedly all parents would be inclined to do.



re... : Assault by teacher          
31/05/2008 15:31 - Bullying
-----------------------------------
Oh I have no doubt they´d love to see you take your child out of the school and then they could really sweep it under the carpet.

Abuse by teachers is fairly widespread and this was confirmed by the Gardai, most families are unaware of it until it happens to their child. Even if you move your child from the school odds are you could easily come up against the same thing in the new school. Have you ever wondered why so many children transfer from one school to another within their locality. It´s not like the family are leaving the area. I´ve since heard numerous allegations regarding the teacher who assaulted my son. Why should the victim be the one to be moved?

Once you pass an allegation on to the BOM then it´s procedure that the thug and the principal do not discuss the allegation with you. If you do speak to the thug teacher about a different matter I´d strongly advise you to have an independent witness. You are legally entitled to have an independent witness present at any meeting.

Keep in constant contact with the Gardai. Sometimes you need to keep on reminding them of your case as it´s minor compared to some of the other more serious crimes and you don´t want the statute of limitation to be compromised.




re... : Assault by teacher          
05/06/2008 13:14 - Bullying
-----------------------------------
Yes I have went tru all the right procedures. The principal, BOM and Dept of Education. Everything was made in writing. The BOM asked me to sign an agreement with them for the DOE saying that we will resolve this matter between ourselves and they will deal with the teacher. The agreement was that once a week I, my husband, the teacher, the principal and chairman of the BOM would meet to see if the progress from the teacher was satisfactory to me. They met with me the 1st week but only the teacher and the principal. I walked in, they said how is the child coping, I said so far so good that she is not crying herself to sleep in the last week and that was it! Meeting over and not one more since. The swimming incident happed when my child started the school. all dressing rooms were empty and my child went into one. Teacher told her she was not allowed use a dressing room and would have to get undressed outside the dressing rooms. My child tried to explain that she was uncomfortable doing this and the teacher said she didnt care and she will do what she is told. I have brought my child up with the knowledge of privacy and awareness. For a child not to be allowed undress in privacy in this day and age is wrong in my eyes. I approached the teacher re: this and since then have been accused by the principal of branding the teacher a pervert to the board of management. I never once claimed that. All I asked the teacher was why my child was refused a dressing. She replied because they take too long gettin dressed so I explained that i have raised my child in a way that she should always have privacy when undressing and if I can reassure that she will get dressed quickly then is there a problem with having a dressing room. I didnt see anything wrong in asking for that. Since then, this teacher has pulled my childs hair, Degraded her in class and used sarcasm numerous, not just with my child but with me also. The verbal attacks with the principle are still ongoing to me and we are now shunned at church!



re... : Assault by teacher          
31/05/2008 23:38 - Bullying
-----------------------------------
Dear Mr White,

Sounds like you must be a Principal!! Is this too close to the truth for you?? This thread was first set up by me......I was so upset that my son was assaulted by a teacher. This is not cods wallop of any description I can assure you of that. Yes sometimes I wish it was, it´s beyond belief I´ll give you that but unfortunately for myself, my son and my family it is very true. How dare you post something like this on a thread that is giving so many people support. You should be removed from these boards. You have no business posting on something you know nothing about!



re... : Assault by teacher          
10/06/2008 21:28 - Bullying
-----------------------------------
Hi all,
Thank you for your responses, I am still struggling to take all this is in! Ajina I had read all of the posts before I posted myself but to be honest with all the modifications etc it was a little difficult to get a clear picture and I just felt I had to ask the questions to form my own opinion- question, question, question- I am sure it is what we all encourage our children to do, just putting it into practise!
I am still in shock to think that this is not an isolated case, I suppose I can only view things from my own perspective and in a school where the doors are glass, almost every class has an sna and parents are constanly in and out I find it beyond the realms of my imagination to visualise this occuring. And yet, I can imagine how difficult it must be for you to try and get any justice in these cases! Bullying is notoriously difficult to prove, be it between adults or children, and school staff are virtual impossible to fire. What a nightmare!
I really dont have any advice to offer I am afraid, it seems to me that you are all very intelligent, motivated people and anything I might suggest I am sure you have thought of already. If you have any specific questions that you think I might be able to give a teachers percpective on please feel free to ask! Trust me, the thought of anyone in my position hurting a child breaks my heart- I thought that lazy teachers got my goat, this takes it to a new level!



re... : Assault by teacher          
04/06/2008 22:38 - Bullying
-----------------------------------
Before my son was abused by a teacher I naively thought it was an extremely rare occurance. However once we were faced with the abuse and the system did we become shockingly aware at how extensive this problem is.

The more people that speak out against this sort of abuse the better as it may just prevent other children from being abused.



re... : Assault by teacher          
13/06/2008 11:27 - Bullying
-----------------------------------
concerned you posted
"Obviously you have no case or there would be a court case pending"

You are very wrong and uninformed with that OPINION because that´s all it is. There are such things as legal technicalities such as statutes of limitation being only one of many.



re... : Assault by teacher          
10/06/2008 23:31 - Bullying
-----------------------------------
In my boys school there is a very small narrow glass panel in the classroom doors but each classroom has a mini-style corridor for the boys and girls toilets so you can only see the children in the front seats of the middle and far rows. You have to walk right into the classroom and past the toilets to see the rest of the class.

Regarding the SNA´s, at least 80% of the time that I´ve had to go up to the school the SNAs are photo-copying in the office and more often than not it´s an SNA that will open the school door. I have a number of friends and acquaintances who are SNAs and they say this is fairly standard. Both my children have witnessed the same. That leaves plenty of time and opportunity for a teacher to abuse children. An abuser only needs a few seconds to punch, hit or drag a child.

The behaviour of the principal at my boys school would lead me to think that he´s got mental health issues and not fit to work with children.



re... : Assault by teacher          
12/06/2008 17:20 - Bullying
-----------------------------------
Rosie,

If you child came home and told you their teacher hurt them, would you expect the Principal and the BOM to listen to the child?

Would you expect the BOM & Principal to listen to the witnesses?






re... : Assault by teacher          
01/03/2008 23:13 - Bullying
-----------------------------------
Hi marie paula
I just amn´t ready to move my son yet. We have got a home tutor to teach him and the other child from his class for the meantime. We have another very important witness come forward and is making a statement to the Gardai. Were you listening to Gerry Ryan all week? He can´t get over what we already knew..............that Boards of Management and principals have an alarming amount of power. They appear untouchable even to the DES. The teacher in our case has taken on a different personality lately, smiling and hi fives to all the kids! I don´t think ours will be resolved in the immediate future but it will be resolved. You might hear me on the news or radio..listen out. We are lucky (if you call it that) that we have the support of the other family so we lift each other´s spirits when one of us has a bad day. I´m so sorry for your trouble, it may well come to me moving my son and indeed my other children but at the moment I´m going to fight it out while I have the willpower! Thanks for the reply and again, sorry for you and your son. It seems there are a few bad apples out there and they seem to be shielded by other staff or the BOM. My advice to other teaching staff and BOM´s is not to shield them, children have a right to a safe education and are too young to fend for themselves and that´s why they look up to adults. These situations affect the entire family. Any teachers or SNAs out there harbouring bad teachers....shame on you, don´t you realise these people are in the wrong jobs!



re... : Assault by teacher          
04/06/2008 21:53 - Bullying
-----------------------------------
Hi Chelle,
I starting to be a bit concerned about the way this is going. I see from the thread that you first had a problem sometime in Jan 08 and that you took your child out of school for 6 weeks or so. It then appears that you put him back into the same class that the problem teacher is in. What happened in the meantime for you to change how you feel about the teacher? Why are you now taking him out of the class again?
There appears to be some inconsistencies with your postings, the DPP dropped the case , the Guards must have taken some witness statements in order to pass the case to the DPP, what other evidence could there be? Was your son marked ?
While I´m sure what happened to your son in the first instance appears to have been a traumatic event what did you do to minimise the trauma for him. Surely sending him back into ´the lions den´ while you pursued your ´investigations´ did him no favours. Moving the child in and out of class must have put him under some level of stress. I´m not surprised he started wetting himself. You mentioned were at the open evening of another school that you said seemed to have a better BOM. Will you be sending your child there?

At this stage Chelle you seem to be mainly looking for profile yourself with Primetime, Gerry Ryan and all, at the expense of your child.

Teaching your child to stand up for themselves is wonderful when the playing field is level but sometimes you need to teach them that life is full of hard knocks and how we handle ourselves when we get knocked down is probably the better lesson in the long run. Life just isn´t fair.

Most teachers I know are fine upstanding people and I wouldn´t do their job if you paid me. Controlling up to 30 kids must be the most demanding job I know. However in response to Berni, if I was a teacher and I did witness something terrible happening to a child I would consider myself a failure if I didn´t follow through. Crying at night just doesn´t cut it for me when a child is in danger! If you can´t handle the heat ...etc.

Your right though Chelle, this topic has awakened bitter memories, however I prefer not to live in the past. I too grew up with the leather and the cane, you accepted it and moved on. For some it was a badge of honour, everyone wanted to see the marks after school. Children are quite resilient if you let them get on with life.

As an aside , if ´justiceforkids´ isn´t an alias I don´t know what is !


Jenny




re... : Assault by teacher          
12/06/2008 16:36 - Bullying
-----------------------------------
Hi again,
Dont upset yourself anymore Chelle, I hope that the parents in your school are more supportive than the parents in Rosies school seem to be, although I do agree that posters etc will probably be very upsetting to the other children at school so I wouldn´t recommend that as it will only give the BOM more fuel against the victim and it does look sensationalist.
Rosie, I would love if you could answer the questions which I put to you in the earlier post? I can see that you are very angry but to be honest I can only assume that you have no genuine rebuttal if you cant answer such basic queries.




re... : Assault by teacher          
08/06/2008 15:57 - Bullying
-----------------------------------
I think the attacks on, in particular, Chelle are way too pointed and personal. You accuse her of being defensive - well, I would say that its certain people who have come on this board who are, unprovoked, attacking her. Of course everyone is entitled to their view, but really guys, not all views have to be expressed especially if they are not helpful or excessively personal. Coming onto a message board and questionning the veracity of claims as if that is a vindication in itself is totally simplistic. Of course, all claims made anywhere (on a board or not) can be viewed with a degree of skepticism. But this board is not a court and if it is useful, without breaching slander or libel or any other laws, for parents to discuss assaults of their children here, I don´t understand what is the problem? There is no need to put "alleged" in front of assault, because on a forum such as this claims can only be allegations. No one has to "prove" their case, as no one CAN prove their case on a message board, duh. Just like no one can know who anyone else is and how many different aliases any one person is using. These are all the normal parameters of a board such as this so to criticise the discussion here on that basis is a bit like criticising the television for not being a radio. Such is the nature of the medium.

Thanks Chelle for the very detailed response by the way - couldn´t say fairer than that in your trying to answer the questions raised. I hope you do continue to get support from this thread.

Anyone hear anything back from Prime Time? I have to confess I haven´t contacted them but will write it out tonight and post it to them.




re : Assault by teacher          
28/05/2008 17:15 - Bullying
-----------------------------------
hi . firstly, I can understand your frustration. My 8 yr old was aslo assaulted and mentally subjected to sarcasam by her teacher. i too approached the BOM and principle and also made a statement to Dept of Education. This has happened in the past couple of months and since then i and my family have been shuned by the school. i now am trying to locate her to a different school and when applying, all seems to be well. until, that is, i tell them where her present school is. A couple days later they ring me and tell me they are full??? i cant prove it but i am nearly sure that the present school has something to do with my child being rejected. please please can anyone give me advise. im at my wits end. tks LT



re... : Assault by teacher          
06/06/2008 16:51 - Bullying
-----------------------------------
Hi ,
The moderator couldn´t find the error but he told me to ask you to point it out.

JusticeForKids :joker:



re... : Assault by teacher          
25/05/2008 22:30 - Bullying
-----------------------------------
Hi - not sure how to get in touch through here. Do you want to contact me at ajnaschooldays(a)gmail.com??




re... : Assault by teacher          
05/06/2008 11:42 - Bullying
-----------------------------------
I know Ecilia. So any ideas where i go from here on this. I have a pain in my A** confronting this school. Any ideas?



re... : Assault by teacher          
07/06/2008 17:12 - Bullying
-----------------------------------
Hi All,

Assault is a grievous charge, especially when the assault comes from professionals. Maybe, this is why it is so incredible. Your anger is fully understandable if the charge is true; and we have to state that as every parent knows that a child of 5 or 6 does not know what legally constitutes assault. My hat off to professionals everywhere - doctors, psychiatrists, councillors and teachers. These days, they are easy targets and potential prey for the slightest accusations from the non professionals among us. I am not saying that abuse does not occur, but I am saying that we better be 100% sure of our facts. This thread would be better entitled "Alleged Assault".

It is definitely abusive to children to demonstrate outside their school and I hope that the Guardia will disallow this and encourage enraged parents to follow the legal course of justice over such a serious issue. Imagine the impact on a school, its innocent children and other professionals when unthinking parents allow their emotions to force their children into our cruel adult world?

It is only fair to bring out the precise facts of what happened - maybe they have previously been posted, but escaped me? Without these facts, these threads are just hot air. Mr White said "codswollop" and was branded a demon principal, but he had a point. What are the full facts?



re... : Assault by teacher          
05/06/2008 11:15 - Bullying
-----------------------------------
LT, just read the words of that song. In my opinion, it is entirely inappropriate for that age group - or indeed any primary school child. What on earth is that teacher thinking? My flesh is crawling.



re : Assault by teacher          
01/03/2008 21:04 - Bullying
-----------------------------------
Hi, I felt so sad when I read what happened to your son. I had the same problem two years ago. I complained to the Board of Management and again we were made the victims. I had letters from past parents whose children went through the same treatment from this teacher. The Board covered up led by the parish priest. The union represented the teacher and she got away with it. We had no choice but to move our son to another school. We have never looked back and he is so happy and confident now. We went through hell and back. It was a disgrace how we were treated by the Board. Teachers can get away with whatever they like. It is a disgrace. I hope this teacher burns in hell for what she put my son and family through. She is a witch and even looks like one.



re... : Assault by teacher          
28/05/2008 18:07 - Bullying
-----------------------------------
Hi LT

This boat we are all in is getting fairly crowded!! I didn´t think there´s was this much corruption going on in the schools.

You can take out a section 29 appeal against a school that refuses your child admission. It doesn´t matter what grounds they refuse the admission, the Department have to investigate it. I heard that one school had 129 section 29 appeals against them. You can download the form on the Department of Education Website. You might also want to contact the National Education Welfare Board, the guy we have was very helpful and he might have some advice for you. We also called Parentline who were great. This is so shocking, you´d imagine the Principal of your current school would be glad to see you go elsewhere if there has been conflict between you. The section 29 appeal is a very prompt service, so you really should try that route given that the school year is fast approaching.
Hope that helps, if I think of anything else I´ll post it to you.

Chelle



re... : Assault by teacher          
31/05/2008 16:12 - Bullying
-----------------------------------
I have a friend who has a connection in Primetime. It would be great to get on there. Could we write to RTE and ask Miriam? If there was that many of us I´m sure we might get somewhere? We´ve had alot of media interest lately so something might come from that and if it does I´ll be looking for all of you to join in.

Defo think an email to RTE Primetime wouldn´t go amiss. We could ask them to take a look at this thread to see for themselves. Wouldn´t it be great to have someone from the DES to vent our frustrations on?! And someone from the INTO too!

I´m gonna send an email and I´ll get the other family in our case to do the same.

Might as well be proactive!



re... : Assault by teacher          
13/06/2008 12:50 - Bullying
-----------------------------------
Dear All,

Thanks for you ongoing support. I was in fact going to write to schooldays to request closure of this as it is really getting me down with all the attacks on me since everyone in my son´s school has been logging on to slate me.Thanks again to you all.



re... : Assault by teacher          
09/06/2008 21:06 - Bullying
-----------------------------------
Hi Deirdre,

As I´ve said already teaching is a vocation, and you obviously are very good at it. Unfortunately for my little fella he encountered one of the few not so nice teachers. I understand why you are in shock. It´s six months on and I´m still in shock to be honest.

It could have in no way being construed the wrong way. [The details of the incident have been removed by the moderator]

It´s nice to see some teachers responding on the thread. Our other son´s teacher is a mummy too, this is the first year I´ve experienced a mum as a teacher and believe me I could tell the difference straight away. The old maternal instincts are more evident. She´s brilliant and my son loves her. He´s loved all his teachers, pity his brother wasn´t so lucky in this Infant years!

Thanks again Deirdre for your post, sorry to shock you but unfortunately this does go on allbeit not very often (thank God)

Chelle



re... : Assault by teacher          
03/06/2008 21:46 - Bullying
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Hi Jim,

The teacher in my son´s case used considerable force to move him so it could not have been taken as gently moving him. Our case obviously was serious enough for the Gardai to gather statements and send the file to the DPP.

You are most definitely correct in what you say about the state of education in this country. During these posts (which I already described how my son was assaulted) we have identified a definite gap in legislation whereby BOMs are not answerable to anyone for their actions "the Board´s decision is final". This is quite alarming and in effect every child is in potential danger unless this gap is bridged.

Thanks for your support, can we count on you to march outside the Dail with us?

Chelle



re... : Assault by teacher          
29/05/2008 09:53 - Bullying
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We are moving this thread from where it is currently posted (School Applications Forum) to the Bullying Forum where it more appropriately belongs. Thanks to all who are posting for sharing your experiences and for your care in not identifying schools or individuals. On a couple of occasions where we have felt that either you or the school may be identifiable we have made minor amendments to postings.

Schooldays Moderator



re... : Assault by teacher          
12/06/2008 15:49 - Bullying
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At present there are allegations of assault going on at the school my children are in and I have to say I am appauled by the behaviour of the parents involved. They have been approaching parents regarding not submitting money towards voluntary contributions for the school. Do these individuals not understand what they are doing is wrong. Has nobody ever heard of innocent until proven guilty!! Also, which I find disgusting is the fact that there were posters put up saying that the school abuses the children. Most of children from age 8 upwards can read and are aware of the bad carma!! Its appauling, disgusting and needs to be stopped. There only a small number involved and the rest of the parents are 100% behind the school as a lot of parents has had the teacher in question and has never had a problem with her... If I ever thought in any way my child was been verbally, physically or mentally absued I would remove my child from this situation and under no circumstances leave my other children there. That in a nutshell explains what kind of parents are involved..



re... : Assault by teacher          
22/02/2008 18:41 - Bullying
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Hi Chelle
Thank YOU for your reply.It is so good to be able to "talk" to someone who understands. In my case I went through a period where I was very low and disheartened .It is very difficult when you are up against the system and that system is corrupt.But throughout the entire investigation (which was very stressful) I clung onto the fact that regardless of who covered who`s back I needed to stand up for what I believed in.
I am very interested to hear of your principal owing the teacher!!!It throws a lot of light onto things!!!!! and its yet another piece of the jigsaw isn`t it.the truth always wins in the end.However long it takes.Its just so sad that your little boy and his classmate are having to pay the price for the dishonesty of adults.
I`m sure there are some really good people in your school and they must be missing your little boy and his friend.



re... : Assault by teacher          
07/06/2008 23:19 - Bullying
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** Little correction to my last post***

"I never expected our child´s complaint to be believed just because we said it. But we did expect a professional and objective inquiry according to the appropriate procedures"

That what happens when you have been working with silage all day!!

Have a great weekend




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